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Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

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Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#21

Post by Tepix »

zenmaster10665 wrote: post #15
agoodthrowaway wrote: post #4

One thing that I wonder is whether we could ever identify an alien communication signal as an alien signal is likely to be much more advanced. In that scenario, the alien civilization is likely to be able to send their signal at the Shannon limit. Additionally an advanced civilization is likely to be sending signals optically instead of over radio waves. But even if we assume radio waves, Shannon says that the you ca…

if they are sufficiently advanced, they would likely understand that other civilizations require primitive bands/encoding?

It could be considered a clue check. If you're unable to recognize and decode the signal, you failed the test.

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#22

Post by sizzzzlerz »

runawaybottle wrote: post #12

What could create a natural radio signal in space? Edit: I should have done some basic googling, turns out a few things: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_radio_source

The real question you should be asking is what doesn't. Radio signals are generated in many ways at frequencies up and down the spectrum.

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#23

Post by ngneer »

agoodthrowaway wrote: post #4

One thing that I wonder is whether we could ever identify an alien communication signal as an alien signal is likely to be much more advanced. In that scenario, the alien civilization is likely to be able to send their signal at the Shannon limit. Additionally an advanced civilization is likely to be sending signals optically instead of over radio waves. But even if we assume radio waves, Shannon says that the you ca…

Speaking of Shannon, unless we were the intended recipient, wouldn't an advanced civilization protect the transmission, so that we would not be able to eavesdrop and/or interpret it?

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#24

Post by richk449 »

agoodthrowaway wrote: post #4

One thing that I wonder is whether we could ever identify an alien communication signal as an alien signal is likely to be much more advanced. In that scenario, the alien civilization is likely to be able to send their signal at the Shannon limit. Additionally an advanced civilization is likely to be sending signals optically instead of over radio waves. But even if we assume radio waves, Shannon says that the you ca…

> But even if we assume radio waves, Shannon says that the you can send the most information when using a random code. As you approach the Shannon limit the signal becomes more noise-like as the encoding tends towards random.

The waveforms we currently use for high data rate communications are already pretty close to the Shannon limit. I'm willing to bet the aliens will tolerate a 30% reduction in data rate if it means using an identifiable signal.

Does Shannon's theorem really imply that the closer an information stream is to the limit, the more it resembles noise?

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#25

Post by PappaPatat »

dvh wrote: post #5
agoodthrowaway wrote: post #4

One thing that I wonder is whether we could ever identify an alien communication signal as an alien signal is likely to be much more advanced. In that scenario, the alien civilization is likely to be able to send their signal at the Shannon limit. Additionally an advanced civilization is likely to be sending signals optically instead of over radio waves. But even if we assume radio waves, Shannon says that the you ca…

It's too short for communication. I think it's burst of particles that are released when spaceship goes out of warp. https://www.universetoday.com/93882/warp-drives-may-come-wit... 16 day regular cycle is because it's regular transfer between two planets. Other FRBs are random because they are just random ships on random research routes.

I am going to frame your answer.

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#26

Post by gchokov »

dvh wrote: post #5
agoodthrowaway wrote: post #4

One thing that I wonder is whether we could ever identify an alien communication signal as an alien signal is likely to be much more advanced. In that scenario, the alien civilization is likely to be able to send their signal at the Shannon limit. Additionally an advanced civilization is likely to be sending signals optically instead of over radio waves. But even if we assume radio waves, Shannon says that the you ca…

It's too short for communication. I think it's burst of particles that are released when spaceship goes out of warp. https://www.universetoday.com/93882/warp-drives-may-come-wit... 16 day regular cycle is because it's regular transfer between two planets. Other FRBs are random because they are just random ships on random research routes.

Love your comment. Sudden daydreaming for me.

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#27

Post by techopoly »

jonny383 wrote: post #3
dmitripopov wrote: post #2

Just imagine one day a true alien signal comes ringing, and what the public reaction would be? "Yeah, right. Again."

I guess it would depend how compelling the signal was. If it's just rogue radio waves with seemingly intelligent structure that the average person cannot understand, then the reaction would likely be "Yeah, right. Again". If it's some kind of encoded message containing information that can be decoded and verified by scientific communicators, perhaps not.

That's the problem, isn't it? How can we decode a theoretical alien transmission without transposing our own sense of meaning onto it?

It's like the X-Files episodes where they find the aliens are using encodings that were designed in modern history by humans. Binary (as if there is one standard binary), bar codes... These scenes are supposed to be huge revelations, but for any sort of programmer or engineer, they seem silly. Which wouldn't be so if they made a point about how the aliens are intentionally using our encoding systems, but that's not how it's presented.

Not hating on the X-Files though, that show is awesome.

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#28

Post by saber6 »

dvh wrote: post #5
agoodthrowaway wrote: post #4

One thing that I wonder is whether we could ever identify an alien communication signal as an alien signal is likely to be much more advanced. In that scenario, the alien civilization is likely to be able to send their signal at the Shannon limit. Additionally an advanced civilization is likely to be sending signals optically instead of over radio waves. But even if we assume radio waves, Shannon says that the you ca…

It's too short for communication. I think it's burst of particles that are released when spaceship goes out of warp. https://www.universetoday.com/93882/warp-drives-may-come-wit... 16 day regular cycle is because it's regular transfer between two planets. Other FRBs are random because they are just random ships on random research routes.

I WANT TO BELIEVE.

:D

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#29

Post by sixdimensional »

Sci fi daydream here.

What would it take for us to actually try to make such a signal ourselves in space? Really huge explosions? I suppose one weird way to see if they could be alien signals is see if we can imitate them.

Of course, that would be no guarantee that we aren’t just making bird calls imitating the sounds of car alarms (or other birds for that matter). But, I mean, if we can detect these signals, if we could generate one, maybe some other civilization would too. And if we proved that any civilization of a certain state could use the same technique, it would at least lend more probability to the possibility that these are something not natural phenomena.

And who knows, when the alien armada invasion force shows up, you’d know for sure it worked! Ah, such reckless abandon.

Re: Powerful Radio Signal from Deep Space

#30

Post by thdrdt »

lovelearning wrote: post #8

More like "powerful radio emissions from deep space". The paper doesn't use the term "signal" at all, and a website dedicated to science probably shouldn't have either (although it did help bait my click).

I think the click-bait title is the reason why most comments here are about aliens.

Also because it has a set interval. People like to assume there is some intelligent life form that trigger the events.

But on our own planet we have geysers that erupt at set intervals. All without the help of an intelligent life form.

So I think it's more likely that it's a natural phenomena.

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