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Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

theguardian.com

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Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#21

Post by sjg007 »

foxyv wrote: post #10

Lately I've been doing 7 day fasts two times a year mostly to reduce visceral fat and reduce my chance of type 2 diabetes. However a lot of science is pointing to it being a good way to reduce cancer risk. Nothing definitive, but it's nice to think I may be helping my body fight possible cancer too. Maybe I will catch some of these things early during these phases where the genes are present but the cancer hasn't beg…

Yeah their is some research that suggests this. I think there are some clinical trials to test this as well. The hypothesis is that when you are fasting your cells go into a rest and repair mode vs growth mode. Cancer cells theoretically don't do this so that may activate an immunological response. This conflates with the idea that chemo would be more effective is that the drugs would be taken up by cancer cells b/c they are actively growing vs the regular cells. So maybe less side effects and maybe more drug available to the cancer cells. I don't think we know for sure.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#22

Post by cactus2093 »

Obviously human bodies are not machines, they're much more complex and less understood than computer hardware, but I can't help but think of the analogy to running web servers.

Medicine today seems a lot like running a web app and never knowing if anything is broken unless users complain. It sort of works, but with good monitoring and alerting set up you can catch issues earlier or prevent them altogether. And the stakes with your body are much higher than just a web app going down, the difference between catching something like cancer a few months earlier is literally life or death.

From what I've read in threads like these, almost everyone in the medicine field is very opposed to moving in this direction, even seemingly in principle, and I really can't understand why. I get that doing certain tests can be invasive on its own, so the cost/benefit has to be considered on a case by case basis. This argument also as an analogy to operations - you get false positives on your webservers too, and sometimes people get woken up in the middle of the night for no reason. But we work to fix noisy alerts one by one, and things generally improve over time. Why is this not possible in medicine?

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#23

Post by sjg007 »

rtny4821 wrote: post #11
melling wrote: post #4

According to Craig Venter, early detection is what we need to eliminate cancer: https://youtu.be/iUqgTYbkHP8?t=15m37s

Early detection is what the industry wants so they can improve their 5-year survival stats. And of course increase the total addressable market for conventional treatment options

We know early detection leads to more cures.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#25

Post by ncphillips »

cactus2093 wrote: post #22

Obviously human bodies are not machines, they're much more complex and less understood than computer hardware, but I can't help but think of the analogy to running web servers. Medicine today seems a lot like running a web app and never knowing if anything is broken unless users complain. It sort of works, but with good monitoring and alerting set up you can catch issues earlier or prevent them altogether. And the st…

It's because of the idea of iatrogenics: harm caused by the doctor.

If things are going wrong in a web server then intervention is almost always necessary.

The human body can take care of itself, and most of the time it's better to let it.

https://fs.blog/2013/10/iatrogenics/

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#26

Post by bitL »

agumonkey wrote: post #16
bitL wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7 days fasting (electrolytes-only) gives me a week-long euphoria afterwards, but days 6-7 show some ugly symptoms of previous diseases, so persevering those is a bit tricky. It also leads to 10-12lb weight loss.

what kind of activities do you do during the fast ? normal work life or retreat / reading ?

First 3 days normal stuff including intense HIIT training, then I try to relax in my spare time for the remaining 4 days (normal business). On the first day I might suffer from a slight headache if I was used to a lot of caffeine/sugar. On the second day I am the "smelliest", so it's best to have that one over the weekend when I don't have to be around other people.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#27

Post by DataWorker »

kaitai wrote: post #17
skwb wrote: post #12

While it is certainly interesting to hear of new developments for cancer screening, it must be taken in with the proper context. I see a lot of people without medical or public health training fall into the trap of thinking that any sort of screening mechanism is a net positive, without taking into consideration the "costs". For example, a lot of breast cancer screening has been highly controversial, because of eithe…

This is a hugely important comment and given the demographics of HN, I'll bring up prostate cancer as an example. It is important to catch prostate cancer in younger men, as in younger men it tends to be an aggressive cancer and lead to mortality. Paradoxically, in older men, aggressive screening for prostate cancer is bad if you want men to live longer and healthier lives. To oversimplify a bit, old guys with prosta…

Identifying cancer doesn’t necessitate removal but point taken.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#28

Post by anonymfus »

DataWorker wrote: post #27
kaitai wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a hugely important comment and given the demographics of HN, I'll bring up prostate cancer as an example. It is important to catch prostate cancer in younger men, as in younger men it tends to be an aggressive cancer and lead to mortality. Paradoxically, in older men, aggressive screening for prostate cancer is bad if you want men to live longer and healthier lives. To oversimplify a bit, old guys with prosta…

Identifying cancer doesn’t necessitate removal but point taken.

Also knowing about cancer decreases quality of life by itself.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#29

Post by foxyv »

bitL wrote: post #15
foxyv wrote: post #10

Lately I've been doing 7 day fasts two times a year mostly to reduce visceral fat and reduce my chance of type 2 diabetes. However a lot of science is pointing to it being a good way to reduce cancer risk. Nothing definitive, but it's nice to think I may be helping my body fight possible cancer too. Maybe I will catch some of these things early during these phases where the genes are present but the cancer hasn't beg…

7 days fasting (electrolytes-only) gives me a week-long euphoria afterwards, but days 6-7 show some ugly symptoms of previous diseases, so persevering those is a bit tricky. It also leads to 10-12lb weight loss.

Lately I've been trying supplementation of potassium, magnesium and calcium which are supposedly lost during a fast. (I'm skeptical of most supplementation...) Pretty much just sea salt, creme de tartar, and lime juice. Seems to help a little with the weirder effects of a long fast. (Cramping, weakness, lightheadedness) In water they taste a little like gatorade without the sugar.

Re: Signs of cancer can appear long before diagnosis, study shows

#30

Post by dghughes »

foxyv wrote: post #10

Lately I've been doing 7 day fasts two times a year mostly to reduce visceral fat and reduce my chance of type 2 diabetes. However a lot of science is pointing to it being a good way to reduce cancer risk. Nothing definitive, but it's nice to think I may be helping my body fight possible cancer too. Maybe I will catch some of these things early during these phases where the genes are present but the cancer hasn't beg…

That reminds me of people who follow the Calorie Restriction Optimal Nutrition (CRON) diet. Only they practically starve themselves everyday. I know it's not the goal they do try to consume on the absolute necessary nutrients.

My theory is someday CRON will surpass veganism merely for one-up-manship.

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