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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

21–30 of 617 posts

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#21

But will they force Dads to take it? As a Dad who had two kids, I would much rather pay for childcare than take paternity leave. Would someone like me be held back artificially to promote equality? EDIT: Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people.

You'd rather pay people to be with your kids than be with your kids? Wow

Yeah I'd guess you'd be held back from being a crap dad

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#22
Good job Finland! Fellow Nordic here (Norwegian) and a dad. The father quota here in Norway made a huge social change. It really helped make it socially acceptable for dads to spend more time with their children.

I noticed for my two sons how much of a difference it makes being around your kids when they are young. You cannot cannot substitute short time with "quality time." The amount of time you are there matters a lot to small kids.

I think it is healthy for children to have both a mother and father who is actively present in their lives. You need a gender equality oriented society for that. If women are offered poor pay and opportunities it encourages women to stay home the whole time while men do all the work. That is bad for both parties. Men see little of their kids and kids don't get the experience with dad that they benefit from.

Meanwhile the mother may get a lot more time with the kids but she also suffers from having no career or independence. The relationship also suffers as one does not have a work life experience and child caring experience to share and talk about.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#23
> while fathers are given 2.2 months until the child turns two. However, on average only one in four of them take what they are given. The current plans now talk only of parental leave.

Is it conceivable that fathers actually don't want to spend that much time at home and that the Finland Government is strong-handing them into doing it?

One frustration I have in this topic is that it is seldom mentioned that any parent with any savings and a decent job has the option of taking unpaid leave and take as much as they want with their kids, but choose not to. That is a very strong case for revealed preferences.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#24
post #3

Seems a bit bizarre seeing that mothers in most cases will need to spend more time with their babies. After all, there are certain things like breastfeeding that only a mother can do.

There is pretty much exactly one thing that only a mother can do once the baby has been born, and you just named it.

For many reasons, a mother might not be willing or able to breastfeed her child or to do so exclusively, so you'd need additional feeding arrangements in those situations.

Even if the mother is breastfeeding, in practice she might appreciate being able to express some of her milk and have the father feed the baby sometimes.

Things could be much more even with early years childcare than they are in many places at the moment, and in my experience there are a lot of mothers and a lot of fathers who wish it were so.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#25

But will they force Dads to take it? As a Dad who had two kids, I would much rather pay for childcare than take paternity leave. Would someone like me be held back artificially to promote equality? EDIT: Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people.

No, the point is to offer an incentive. Even the mother may not take any of her leave if she wants. But by providing an incentive, you do change how most men consider normal for raising the kids.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#27
post #19
post #3

Seems a bit bizarre seeing that mothers in most cases will need to spend more time with their babies. After all, there are certain things like breastfeeding that only a mother can do.

Breast pump solves that.

Unless dad also pumps, it doesn't...

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#28

But will they force Dads to take it? As a Dad who had two kids, I would much rather pay for childcare than take paternity leave. Would someone like me be held back artificially to promote equality? EDIT: Not a freak, don't care for the infant stage. Happy to dote when they start to turn into people.

You'd rather pay people to be with your kids than be with your kids? Wow Yeah I'd guess you'd be held back from being a crap dad

I would rather pay for someone else to do what I consider dreck work (changings, feedings, monitoring while they sleep) while still making time each evening to spend with them.

Research has shown this to be optimal (time spent with your children later in life closer to adolescent years matters more than their younger years).

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jomf.12170

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#29
post #2

Germany has this and is awesome. 14 months paid leave to distribute among the two parents.

14 months or weeks?

It's months. Amazing for employees and terrifying for employers. Someone I know took a new job somewhere, only to let them know a week or so after being there that his wife was about to have their child and he was going to be gone for the next 14 months.

They were not going to be able to fire him without repercussions. He was not required to let them know during the interview.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#30
> Neighbouring Sweden has Europe's most generous system of parental leave with 240 days each after a baby's birth

That's working days or what? In Latvia (Estonia neighbour) you may get 12 months (60% of money calculated from amount BEFORE taxes) or 18 months (43,75%). And dad can leave, too.

https://likumi.lv/ta/en/en/id/38051-on-maternity-and-sicknes... Section 10.6. Amount of Parental Benefit

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