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Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

aviationtoday.com

21–30 of 46 posts

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#21
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember Sid Smith saying that we have enough lithium in known reserves to replace every car on earth one time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WPB2u8EzL8&t=35m29s

Yesterday I learned that Sodium batteries might become a contender to Lithium batteries. And they are safer.

Sodium is very clearly a contender for stationary batteries. It may even be competitive for surface mobile applications like cars... But there is just no way it can compete on air transport.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#22
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(18)30292-7.pdf : "Lithium Metal Extraction from Seawater" > Based on the consumption rate projected for 2050, the residual lithium reserve on land will be exhausted by 2080 > In contrast, the ocean contains 230 billion tons of lithium, an amount four orders of magnitude larger than the lithium reserves on land > our prototype device can be powered by a solar panel and metalli…

What exactly do they mean by "seawater"? Not all seawater is exactly the same, chemically speaking. I have actually measured "seawater" before, and the chemistry of the water at a single location can vary wildly from day to day. I just want to know under what conditions they tested their prototype! THIS IS NOT BAD FAITH FAUX IGNORANCE. I AM ACTUALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS.

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Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do they mean by "seawater"? Not all seawater is exactly the same, chemically speaking. I have actually measured "seawater" before, and the chemistry of the water at a single location can vary wildly from day to day. I just want to know under what conditions they tested their prototype! THIS IS NOT BAD FAITH FAUX IGNORANCE. I AM ACTUALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS.

It's the substance that composes those 75% of the surface of our planet that we call "sea".

[deleted]

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do they mean by "seawater"? Not all seawater is exactly the same, chemically speaking. I have actually measured "seawater" before, and the chemistry of the water at a single location can vary wildly from day to day. I just want to know under what conditions they tested their prototype! THIS IS NOT BAD FAITH FAUX IGNORANCE. I AM ACTUALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#25
post #19
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hydrogen is denser by weight, but by volume the story is completely different. The tanks need to be large.

What if most of the aircraft was hydrogen tank or bag? Then it could use the hydrogen for some of its lift! We can call it an "airship". Or compress the hydrogen, but then you have 700 PSI handling issues and the tanks have to be very strong.

> We can call it an "airship".

Yeah, let's make a huge one and call it the Hindenburg! That sounds like a foolproof plan.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#26
post #3

It’s pretty clear that battery technology and cost efficiency is going to have to advance substantially before it can have a meaningful impact on air transport. Blimps might be a slight exception.

Or just use hydrogen, it's a much denser energy storage medium, and airflight is less cost sensitive than ground transportation.

> just use hydrogen

At that point, why not package the hydrogen on a carbon chain...oh wait.

A lot of these schemes compare poorly against synthetic jet fuel manufactured from atmospheric carbon.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universal basic income and massive carbon taxes to pay for it! It’s about time we tax actual destruction, not a minimum wage earner’s Netflix subscription.

Best way to do it I've ever seen is the automated transactions tax, whereby you replace most taxes with a small percentage taken on every financial transaction (plus a larger one when converting to/from cash to account for the black economy). It's progressive because poor people will only pay twice (once on their salary/benefits, once when buying stuff), whereas rich people will pay several times when moving money ar…

Expect a new class of companies to spring up overnight that are dedicated to bundling transactions to avoid this new tax. For instance, I could make a single transaction to my broker that covered all of my expected expenditures for the month, and that broker would then disburse it to my payees, bundling it with funds from other payers to avoid the tax on the other end.

I am strongly in favor of a tax on all stock market transactions, though—anything to deter HFT, which IMHO has little societal benefit while externalizing a ton of risk.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best way to do it I've ever seen is the automated transactions tax, whereby you replace most taxes with a small percentage taken on every financial transaction (plus a larger one when converting to/from cash to account for the black economy). It's progressive because poor people will only pay twice (once on their salary/benefits, once when buying stuff), whereas rich people will pay several times when moving money ar…

Why tax the income side when you could just tax the consumption side?

Taxing consumption is regressive; Bill Gates can't eat that many more hamburgers than the average person.

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#29
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I learned that Sodium batteries might become a contender to Lithium batteries. And they are safer.

Sodium is very clearly a contender for stationary batteries. It may even be competitive for surface mobile applications like cars... But there is just no way it can compete on air transport.

I keep being intrigued by vanadium redox flow batteries, and I've seen some in the real world in stationary applications. And the prospect of instant charging by spit-swapping in a mobile application is pretty wild.

How scarce is vanadium, though?

Re: Battery supply problems faced by electric air taxis

#30
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.cell.com/joule/pdf/S2542-4351(18)30292-7.pdf : "Lithium Metal Extraction from Seawater" > Based on the consumption rate projected for 2050, the residual lithium reserve on land will be exhausted by 2080 > In contrast, the ocean contains 230 billion tons of lithium, an amount four orders of magnitude larger than the lithium reserves on land > our prototype device can be powered by a solar panel and metalli…

What exactly do they mean by "seawater"? Not all seawater is exactly the same, chemically speaking. I have actually measured "seawater" before, and the chemistry of the water at a single location can vary wildly from day to day. I just want to know under what conditions they tested their prototype! THIS IS NOT BAD FAITH FAUX IGNORANCE. I AM ACTUALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS.

Lithium content varies as much as salt content, but one thing is certain: the open seas are consistently salty.
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