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Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

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Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#21
I have no way to prove/disprove if or not Elop did this with straight face and without any conflict of interests but thinking about the decisions that were made and information that was provided - it all makes sense only if seen from Microsoft side.

a) Nokia thought they could not differentiate enough with Android so they did not choose it. Then they said they will not customize the WP7 experience - so they would essentially differentiate on hardware/pricing alone. No reason they could not do the same with Android.

b) To let go of a significant capability such as developing their own smart phone OSes and UIs - however unsuccessful they may be in the market - and betting your business on an as-yet under performing platform takes some amount of stupidity.

c) Most of what Nokia sells today are not your typical smart phones. They are losing ground to people going Android and dumping their Nokia feature phones. But they still do not seem to have a "different" strategy for low end devices targeting the developed world and dumb phone users in developed world. WP7 is not it AFAICS. Both Google ($85 dual core Broadcom SoC) and Apple (with the recent rumors of half-iPhone for sub $200 unsubsidized) have a solid plan in place to attack that segment. It is a glaring omission from Nokia and WP7 strategy - especially so since that is an under explored market and they have the highest chance of succeeding. Even if they hope dumb phone users will somehow upgrade to premium WP7 handsets - they are still late to the game.

c) Nokia's competitors who have some WP7 footprint today - how they will react tomorrow? Microsoft hasn't made any special deals with HTC/Samsung for example and their special treatment to Nokia is so close enough to them buying and running Nokia that those guys are going to be forced to rethink their WP7 strategies unless Microsoft offers them something to level the playing field.

d) Microsoft paying them money sounds good in the near term but it comes at a cost of Nokia crippling themselves and risking a whole lot on Windows Phone 7 and Microsoft. The dependence on Microsoft is a huge deal - HP could've done that but they thought it was wiser to buy Palm and bet on their own capability.

e) Why was it so hard to execute? Elop lost a golden chance of understanding this and fixing it. They won't have to execute on OS development now but still there is hardware and software integration work to do that requires lot of execution - they aren't simply going to dump hardware on Microsoft and let them deal with it. It wouldn't scale if Samsung/HTC and others expect the same.

Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#23
post #2

Wait a second... so Microsoft is paying Nokia to use their software? Is "inverse licensing" a viable strategy now?

I don't know that it is true 'inverse licensing', as nobody has ever disclosed the amount or structure of the deal.

I assumed it was an up-front deal which is more than covering the cost of Nokia getting the OS onto their hardware and maybe covering some cost of x-number of minimum handset licenses. Beyond that amount, I would think that Nokia would be paying microsoft per handset.

Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#24

I have no way to prove/disprove if or not Elop did this with straight face and without any conflict of interests but thinking about the decisions that were made and information that was provided - it all makes sense only if seen from Microsoft side. a) Nokia thought they could not differentiate enough with Android so they did not choose it. Then they said they will not customize the WP7 experience - so they would ess…

Don't "a" and "c" sort of cancel each-other out? If other makers back-off of WP7 because of the way Microsoft got into bed with Nokia, doesn't that mean that Nokia can differentiate just by being the company that produces beautiful devices running Windows Phone?

And even if HTC and LG continue their existing tepid embrace of WP7, Nokia is in a position to make the WP7 experience theirs. So much that if another maker produces a WP7 phone, it may well be seen as their "Nokia Competitor."

The assertion that this makes sense only from Microsoft's POV seems totally off to me. Points c, d, & e would really be the same if they'd gone Android but surely the FUD peddlers wouldn't have made so much hay over that. And to point "c" -- that there is a "glaring omission from Nokia and WP7 strategy -- dude, it was made public like 4 days ago.

Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#25

I have no way to prove/disprove if or not Elop did this with straight face and without any conflict of interests but thinking about the decisions that were made and information that was provided - it all makes sense only if seen from Microsoft side. a) Nokia thought they could not differentiate enough with Android so they did not choose it. Then they said they will not customize the WP7 experience - so they would ess…

Don't "a" and "c" sort of cancel each-other out? If other makers back-off of WP7 because of the way Microsoft got into bed with Nokia, doesn't that mean that Nokia can differentiate just by being the company that produces beautiful devices running Windows Phone? And even if HTC and LG continue their existing tepid embrace of WP7, Nokia is in a position to make the WP7 experience theirs . So much that if another maker…

>Nokia can differentiate just by being the company that produces beautiful devices running Windows Phone?

You think that's their plan? You think Microsoft is naive enough to let it happen? If the short WP7 history is any clue - it's not going to be easy for Nokia to differentiate at all.

>And to point "c" -- that there is a "glaring omission from Nokia and WP7 strategy -- dude, it was made public like 4 days ago.

Way to miss the point - "dude". That is eons+4 days late - which boils down to the same fact - they still do NOT have a "strategy" - which means the Microsoft deal was made without thinking through the strategy - Is it going to be Symbian or S40 or WP7 Starter Edition on low end devices to compete with iPhone Mini and Dual Core $29 Androids? And that's where Nokia is hurting right now. They could make a me too WP7 device and there is a fair chance to fail there - but if they made a capable low end device that does most of what iPhone 3GS and LG Optimus does - they have real chance of getting somewhere.

Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#26

How much in the minority am I for thinking this is a good plan for Nokia? Echoing my post in another thread, Apple received $150 million in financing from Microsoft back in 1997 in exchange for including IE on the Mac (among other partnership goodies). If you don't recall that period of computer history (when Apple almost went bust), you may want to watch this Steve Jobs Macworld 1997 presentation discussing their jo…

I don't think the comparison between 1997 Apple and 2011 Nokia is particularly close, or instructive for understanding the deal.

But I do agree that this probably is a good deal Nokia; and for Microsoft. Nokia was never all tha great with software, and is generally a hardware engineering focused company. Basically, they're outsourcing all the software dev work to Microsoft. And, apparently, getting paid (possibly very well) to do so.

Microsoft, on the other hand, buys themselves exclusivity with a major hardware manufacturer. Instead of getting secondary consideration after Android from the likes of motorola or HTC, they get the whole smartphone focus from a company with a reputation for producing reliable and high quality hardware.

Honestly, and all jokes about two dinosaurs getting together to avoid extinction aside, this is probably the best move for both companies, if they're going to stand an chance of being able to compete in the upcoming smartphone market.

Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#27
post #26

How much in the minority am I for thinking this is a good plan for Nokia? Echoing my post in another thread, Apple received $150 million in financing from Microsoft back in 1997 in exchange for including IE on the Mac (among other partnership goodies). If you don't recall that period of computer history (when Apple almost went bust), you may want to watch this Steve Jobs Macworld 1997 presentation discussing their jo…

I don't think the comparison between 1997 Apple and 2011 Nokia is particularly close, or instructive for understanding the deal. But I do agree that this probably is a good deal Nokia; and for Microsoft. Nokia was never all tha great with software, and is generally a hardware engineering focused company. Basically, they're outsourcing all the software dev work to Microsoft. And, apparently, getting paid (possibly ver…

I never got this argument that "Nokia is a hardware company, they don't do good software." That's a shallow argument which doesn't really mean anything at all.

After all, most of their R&D budget is in software development. They have developed two dumbphone OSes (S30, S40) and two smartphone OSes (Symbian, Maemo), which are feature-by-feature the most complete software in the market. There's lots more of course.

But their software sucks.. Why?

Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#28
post #27
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the comparison between 1997 Apple and 2011 Nokia is particularly close, or instructive for understanding the deal. But I do agree that this probably is a good deal Nokia; and for Microsoft. Nokia was never all tha great with software, and is generally a hardware engineering focused company. Basically, they're outsourcing all the software dev work to Microsoft. And, apparently, getting paid (possibly ver…

I never got this argument that "Nokia is a hardware company, they don't do good software." That's a shallow argument which doesn't really mean anything at all. After all, most of their R&D budget is in software development. They have developed two dumbphone OSes (S30, S40) and two smartphone OSes (Symbian, Maemo), which are feature-by-feature the most complete software in the market. There's lots more of course. But…

Im fine with the dumb phone OSes they've produced - they're actually nice to use and probably the best of such systems that I've used.

My experiences with their symbian devices, though (all s60, devices) was terrible. Crashy, with ugly and poorly implemented features, and a ui experience well behind other devices. To be honest, I haven't tried the ^3 series, but the reviews I've read don't indicate to me that they've addressed the problems.

Maemo, I've played with a bit, and it seems fine, but not great and not compelling over iOS or Android. And ive only seen it on one of their tablets.

Maybe its personal preference, dunno.

Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#29

From someone who has not read the press-release/documents of the partnership, does teaming up with Microsoft, explicitly prohibits Nokia to use Android(or any other mobile platform) in the future, if need be?

Nokia and Microsoft don't yet have any kind of binding agreement. Only a term paper. This was mentioned in the press releases on friday.

As I mentioend in the comments of the other post, I believe the whole "Nokia will get billions" is a misunderstanding from the reporters.

Elop was speaking about Nokia getting substantial monetary value, measured in Bs not Ms. I don't think he was speaking about money changing hands.

Re: Nokia to get 'huge' payments from Microsoft

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't "a" and "c" sort of cancel each-other out? If other makers back-off of WP7 because of the way Microsoft got into bed with Nokia, doesn't that mean that Nokia can differentiate just by being the company that produces beautiful devices running Windows Phone? And even if HTC and LG continue their existing tepid embrace of WP7, Nokia is in a position to make the WP7 experience theirs . So much that if another maker…

>Nokia can differentiate just by being the company that produces beautiful devices running Windows Phone? You think that's their plan? You think Microsoft is naive enough to let it happen? If the short WP7 history is any clue - it's not going to be easy for Nokia to differentiate at all. >And to point "c" -- that there is a "glaring omission from Nokia and WP7 strategy -- dude, it was made public like 4 days ago. Way…

Everybody believes this is precisely Nokia and Microsofts stratergy.

WP7 will be the only phone that you are sure will play nicely with microsoft email etc

Business will follow the - never got fired for buying microsoft route

Nokia is the only brand these same businessmen have heard of - they aren't going to take a risk on some 'foreign firm'.

So Nokia becomes Microsoft's RIM.

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