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Kids do program – Experiences from the course

sar3.ch

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Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#21

Post by freediver »

szopa wrote: post #2

Scratch is right now my 6yo's favorite toy. It beats the Lego robot because you don't have to worry about having the right parts and you can concentrate on the "fun parts," that is programming. What really amazes me was how different the progression looked from what I was expecting. The move from "the dinosaur moves and that is fun" to fully fleshed mini games took me by surprise. No linearity there. What I really ap…

As someone who has started programming at age 8, I find Scratch inadequate. It may teach kids how to code, but it doesn't teach coding.

There is something in writing every letter of a command when you are a kid.

There is something that gets born inside when you write and execute this for the first time:

10 PRINT "HELLO"

20 GOTO 10

RUN

My kid is 8 now and I plan to introduce her to an online C64 emulator and BASIC. If it does not stick, there is nothing that Scratch will be able to do. https://floooh.github.io/tiny8bit/c64.html

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#22

Post by teekert »

freediver wrote: post #21
szopa wrote: post #2

Scratch is right now my 6yo's favorite toy. It beats the Lego robot because you don't have to worry about having the right parts and you can concentrate on the "fun parts," that is programming. What really amazes me was how different the progression looked from what I was expecting. The move from "the dinosaur moves and that is fun" to fully fleshed mini games took me by surprise. No linearity there. What I really ap…

As someone who has started programming at age 8, I find Scratch inadequate. It may teach kids how to code, but it doesn't teach coding. There is something in writing every letter of a command when you are a kid. There is something that gets born inside when you write and execute this for the first time: 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 RUN My kid is 8 now and I plan to introduce her to an online C64 emulator and BASIC. If…

If it does not stick, there is nothing that Scratch will be able to do.

Those are some pretty strong words. Did you do any research on this topic?

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#23

Post by pdm55 »

It's obvious from your comments that you are going about educating your kids in the right way - a fun & interesting way that lets them explore. And the interaction with you is probably what they like best about what you are doing.

For others looking for text-based programming for kids, there is SmallBasic https://smallbasic-publicwebsite.azurewebsites.net/

And another blocky course is https://studio.code.org/s/express-2019 (You can even toggle to show javascript.)

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#24

Post by freediver »

teekert wrote: post #22
freediver wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has started programming at age 8, I find Scratch inadequate. It may teach kids how to code, but it doesn't teach coding. There is something in writing every letter of a command when you are a kid. There is something that gets born inside when you write and execute this for the first time: 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 RUN My kid is 8 now and I plan to introduce her to an online C64 emulator and BASIC. If…

If it does not stick, there is nothing that Scratch will be able to do. Those are some pretty strong words. Did you do any research on this topic?

No, just intuitevely. Hard to imagine becoming a great cook by pointing and clicking. Or a great pianist by pointing and clicking. A big part of what makes us human is what continous practice does to our brains.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#25

Post by Wowfunhappy »

freediver wrote: post #21
szopa wrote: post #2

Scratch is right now my 6yo's favorite toy. It beats the Lego robot because you don't have to worry about having the right parts and you can concentrate on the "fun parts," that is programming. What really amazes me was how different the progression looked from what I was expecting. The move from "the dinosaur moves and that is fun" to fully fleshed mini games took me by surprise. No linearity there. What I really ap…

As someone who has started programming at age 8, I find Scratch inadequate. It may teach kids how to code, but it doesn't teach coding. There is something in writing every letter of a command when you are a kid. There is something that gets born inside when you write and execute this for the first time: 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 RUN My kid is 8 now and I plan to introduce her to an online C64 emulator and BASIC. If…

We use Scratch at Girls Who Code. Kids in the class are 9–12 or so.

I'm not the one who decided to use Scratch, but from observing the kids, one huge reason to use it is that most of the students can't type. If they want a character to say something, they use one finger to type out the sentence letter by letter, very slowly.

If they had to type everything, I don't think the class would work.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#26

Post by racl101 »

freediver wrote: post #21
szopa wrote: post #2

Scratch is right now my 6yo's favorite toy. It beats the Lego robot because you don't have to worry about having the right parts and you can concentrate on the "fun parts," that is programming. What really amazes me was how different the progression looked from what I was expecting. The move from "the dinosaur moves and that is fun" to fully fleshed mini games took me by surprise. No linearity there. What I really ap…

As someone who has started programming at age 8, I find Scratch inadequate. It may teach kids how to code, but it doesn't teach coding. There is something in writing every letter of a command when you are a kid. There is something that gets born inside when you write and execute this for the first time: 10 PRINT "HELLO" 20 GOTO 10 RUN My kid is 8 now and I plan to introduce her to an online C64 emulator and BASIC. If…

I've seen a lot of actual developers try Scratch and think WTF is this? How do I .....?

It's weird how you need to rewire your brain for it.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#27

Post by racl101 »

freediver wrote: post #24
teekert wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it does not stick, there is nothing that Scratch will be able to do. Those are some pretty strong words. Did you do any research on this topic?

No, just intuitevely. Hard to imagine becoming a great cook by pointing and clicking. Or a great pianist by pointing and clicking. A big part of what makes us human is what continous practice does to our brains.

Have to agree with this. I find that Scratch removes the dangers and perils of programming for any level, which, unfortunately, are the parts that you learn the most from.

Think about when you began to code. You tried printing 'Hello World' and that was good. Then you tried doing some more, and quickly ran into some trouble. At this crucial point, is where you are bound to learn the most. Troubleshooting is part and parcel of the experience. People need need to experience those painful points to grow, even young programmers.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#28

Post by throwawayhhakdl »

freediver wrote: post #24
teekert wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it does not stick, there is nothing that Scratch will be able to do. Those are some pretty strong words. Did you do any research on this topic?

No, just intuitevely. Hard to imagine becoming a great cook by pointing and clicking. Or a great pianist by pointing and clicking. A big part of what makes us human is what continous practice does to our brains.

what if they... enjoy making things in scratch without aspiring to greatness?

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#29

Post by tombert »

raegis wrote: post #6
jasonkester wrote: post #5

I've personally never been a fan of drag/drop puzzle-piece coding things like Scratch for teaching programming to kids. It just seems like it's sending them down this dead end path. It took me a long time to find something better, and I've finally settled on Pico-8. It's the perfect combination of a simplified language that you have to actually type out in a stripped down editor, but with built in sprite and sound-ef…

Can you say something about your child's experience using Pico-8?

Not the OP, but I've had some good luck with teaching it to teenagers at the library.

By the time someone is a teenager, they likely have some experience doing algebra, which (I think) makes the idea of a "function" a lot easier to comprehend; variable substitutions and whatnot are kind of confusing to someone who isn't even used to seeing letters in math.

Re: Kids do program – Experiences from the course

#30

Post by tashoecraft »

racl101 wrote: post #27
freediver wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, just intuitevely. Hard to imagine becoming a great cook by pointing and clicking. Or a great pianist by pointing and clicking. A big part of what makes us human is what continous practice does to our brains.

Have to agree with this. I find that Scratch removes the dangers and perils of programming for any level, which, unfortunately, are the parts that you learn the most from. Think about when you began to code. You tried printing 'Hello World' and that was good. Then you tried doing some more, and quickly ran into some trouble. At this crucial point, is where you are bound to learn the most. Troubleshooting is part and…

Feel like you're taking your own experience and extrapolating. Assuming that in order to program is must be this gauntlet of difficulty one must overcome in order to be a true programmer.

Many people may give up when they encounter this trouble, but it doesn't mean they can't program eventually. Scratch may give them the tools they need to see what programming can do, then moving on from there.

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