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Offshoring: does it ever work?

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Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#21

Post by rmc »

vgurgov wrote: post #9

(much lower day rate) IMHO This is a key wrong assumption here. After many yrs in this business i am still surprised how many ppl fail to realize this simple fact. Project is doomed when they hire Indian Developers for $5/hour Good developers charge premium anywhere! Local market of talents! Great developers are always busy and if you are happy to find someone cheap and available right now you are under serious risk.…

cost of living in some parts of US is already lower than somewhere in Europe.

Europe isn't really comparable to India when it comes offshoring.

And Europe has large differences, from the UK (expensive) to Romania (cheap).

Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#22

Post by PaulHoule »

maheshs wrote: post #6

Its depend; sometime it works and sometime it won't. In 2009-2010 India has done somewhere around $75 billion business with 18% growth and these numbers say it works for some people. There are certain downsize of offshore development like communication, cultural differences etc.

I've seen offshored projects be highly successful, and I've seen them fail terribly. Sorta like other software projects. ;-)

One time I spoke with the owner of a failing software company who was hoping he could make his company more competitive by hiring offshore labor. The trouble was that he was unable to effectively manage his team in the U.S. -- if couldn't manage those people, there's no way he could manage a relationship with a development shop overseas.

Offshoring requires impeccable project management to succeed, on both sides of the relationship. You can hire management people affordably in India and other places places, but many of the businesses drawn to outsourcing pinch pennies excessively and fail to make this important investment.

Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#23

Post by roc »

wccrawford wrote: post #4

Yes. If you know what you want, can explain it simply, and it can be done simply and repeatedly, offshoring works quite well. It's far cheaper than doing it in-house. However, if you miss any of the above, it's going to be a nightmare. The 'repeatedly' part is the key to making it cheap. 1-off solutions are cheaper in-house because of all the design work. Things that can be done repeatedly (like webscraping different…

If you know what you want and can explain it simply, odds are it's not your core business and you should just buy something off-the-shelf even cheaper.

edit: grammar

Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#24

Post by Daishiman »

rmc wrote: post #21
vgurgov wrote: post #9

(much lower day rate) IMHO This is a key wrong assumption here. After many yrs in this business i am still surprised how many ppl fail to realize this simple fact. Project is doomed when they hire Indian Developers for $5/hour Good developers charge premium anywhere! Local market of talents! Great developers are always busy and if you are happy to find someone cheap and available right now you are under serious risk.…

cost of living in some parts of US is already lower than somewhere in Europe. Europe isn't really comparable to India when it comes offshoring. And Europe has large differences, from the UK (expensive) to Romania (cheap).

The best developers in most places in the world charge rates in the ballpark to a dev in Silicon Valley (at best, 40% of that). The demand is gigantic and there's too much to do already.

Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#25

Post by GavinB »

The question asks "Do mediocre programmers EVER create good software?"

The answer to that is no, but it really has nothing to do with offshoring. If you're going to go outside of the country to find cheaper talent, you should be looking for talent--just cheaper.

I've had brilliant results with a firm with developers Poland. It's not as cheap per man-hour as, say, India, but the results are great. I'm sure it's just a matter of some firms being better than others.

The keys as far as I can tell: - Developers should be managed by other developers. - You need frequent communication. Webex, IM, a ticketing system, and e-mail all have a place. - You have to have good people. This is the hard part in any country. You need to look for quality developers who happen to be cheaper due to their location.

Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#26

Post by toddh »

My experience is it can work well if you give complete responsibility over to the remote group, regardless of location, it doesn't matter if they are a building away or 8 time zones away.

Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#27

Post by yters »

maguay wrote: post #19
raganwald wrote: post #17

Blatant plug: What you want is near -shoring. Canadian development shops and remote Canadian developers are like "Mexicans with sweaters." Lower cost-of-living, we have our family's health care taken care of while we work on your start-up, and our subsidized universities churn out a steady stream of new grads. Add in the fact that we speak English (even if our spelling has idiosyncrasies like "cheque," "colour," and…

Another plug: Americans living overseas. There's a ton of us, and we speak English, have US bank accounts, and understand American culture. We're also likely to be back in the US every so often...

How do I hire you guys?

Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#29

Post by yters »

I just used vworker on a project. Wasn't absolutely perfect, but was pretty good value for money. I'm happy with the result, and now I have an ongoing relationship with the developer.

Re: Offshoring: does it ever work?

#30

Post by raganwald »

yters wrote: post #27
maguay wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another plug: Americans living overseas. There's a ton of us, and we speak English, have US bank accounts, and understand American culture. We're also likely to be back in the US every so often...

How do I hire you guys?

Wanted: American Ex-Pat and Canadian software developers with a passion for changing the world. Are you self-motivated and fascinated by the idea of applying nano-statistical modelling to the problem of online dating game mechanics? Are you interested in remote work? If so, send us your github profile and we'll be in touch.
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