Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100 • Hacker News Board

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#21

Post by jeffnappi » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

Lime has the worst bikes on the planet - they are complete garbage compared to the Uber/JUMP bikes (and probably others). The Lime bikes seemed to constantly be falling apart and were actually pretty terrifying to ride. On the other hand, the JUMP bikes feel very robust and I feel safe riding them. I would rather walk half a mile to find a JUMP bike than ride a Lime bike. No wonder they are failing.

Source: Rode both Lime and Uber JUMP bikes in Seattle (rode a JUMP bike twice last night)

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#22

Post by Johnny555 » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:43 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

5 miles? That sounds more suitable for a bike, an eBike if you don't want to pedal.

A scooter just seems dangerous on the roads and even trails around here -- there are many ruts and potholes that will swallow a 4" scooter wheel and bring you to an abrupt stop.

Riding a scooter doesn't even avoid the need to wear a helmet (assuming that protecting your brain is important to you). Many people wrongly assume that the helmet is to protect you if a car hits you, but really it's there to protect you when your head hits the pavement for any fall -- there's a very low speed range where a helmet is any protection in a collision but even a simple fall can result in serious head injury without a helmet if your head hits the pavement.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#23

Post by bransonf » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:44 PM UTC

ourmandave wrote: post #2

That's a blow. There's not a lot of companies employing divers in the gig economy.

Sarcasm? The vast majority of gig-jobs are driving.

Ride share and delivery make up the obvious lion’s share of gig work.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#24

Post by baxtr » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:45 PM UTC

I counted seven different scooter companies in my town recently. The party had to end at one point...

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#25

Post by jascii » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:46 PM UTC

ourmandave wrote: post #2

That's a blow. There's not a lot of companies employing divers in the gig economy.

While I see plenty of reports of divers pulling scooters from bodies of water, these are usually divers employed by the local sheriff's office or fire department. It seems like the insurance/liability issues involved would be limiting for your average "gig economy" company..

That said, walk into any marina and you'd have plenty of gigs cleaning hulls..

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#26

Post by leoedin » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

hugs wrote: post #19

ckuhl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the biggest advantage scooters have over ebikes is that for a lot of people, there’s a place to store a scooter at both ends of a commute (under a desk) but not necessarily secure bike storage.

Isn't this (under desk storage) why folding bikes exist?

Folding bikes are either clumsy or expensive compared to electric scooters like the Xiaomi. The folding mechanism is rarely anywhere near as nice as a scooter.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#27

Post by dustinmoris » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

ckuhl wrote: post #7

bosie wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 miles one way? Genuine question but why would you want to commute 5 miles on a scooter multiple times a week compared to a bicycle?

I think the biggest advantage scooters have over ebikes is that for a lot of people, there’s a place to store a scooter at both ends of a commute (under a desk) but not necessarily secure bike storage.

Also a huge advantage is the mobility of a scooter over a bike. With a scooter you are more flexible to changes in your day. Did a friend just message you during lunch to meet up for drinks in a different part of town? No probs, just take the scooter on the tube after work. Did the weather just change drastically? No probs, can quickly change to a different way of commute and the scooter doesn't feel like a huge showstopper whereas with a bike it all becomes really really complicated.

Bicycles in big cities are too inflexible. If all you want is to commute like a sheep from home to work and back to home every day then a bicyle is a great inexpensive and green choice, in every other case it's a problem. Unless of course you are in a small village, where a possible change of plans will still result in a short ride. In London this is not possible. If I was to meet friends spontaneously outside my daily commute area then it would be impossible with a bicycle.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#28

Post by Johnny555 » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

bransonf wrote: post #17

vkou wrote: post #4

Is this because you can't make money off short-term scooter rentals (Because the cost of providing this service is > what customers are willing to pay), or because other startups ate their lunch? My wife is seriously considering a scooter (Even a non-electrified one) for her commute (2-3 days a week, 5 miles) - and I can't see a world where we'd rent one on the daily, as opposed to owning. My uninformed guess is: A p…

I’ll try to do the math here. Assuming the following: Cost to buy: $500 Cost to charge $0.40/day (maybe generous) Cost to Rent: $2/day Rental Mileage: $0.15/min Assume 10mph average, (10 miles/day) $9/day Total: $11/day to rent 2x/week,50 weeks 100 days (200 rides): Buy: $540 Rent: $1100 No way it’s economical to rent scooters routinely. Even if you break your scooter every 6 months, you can still save by buying a ne…

I think the advantage of rental is the ability to drop off or pick up anywhere -- you can ride a scooter to the office, walk or bus to a restaurant after work, then rent a different scooter home. Or you might take a scooter from work to the restaurant, and you don't need to worry about parking the rental scooter securely or carrying it around with you.

But that only works if scooters are ubiquitous enough that you can find one when you want one.

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#29

Post by cnorthwood » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:49 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #15

Leaves 12 markets and lays off 8 people per market? For a company with a physical product and inventory, 8 people per city seems like somewhere in the neighborhood of sobriety, possibly verging on stingy. Not the sort of excess we so often find in a tech company that is experiencing layoffs.

They may also have "independent contractors" to do the work

Re: Lime shuts in 12 markets, lays off around 100

#30

Post by ASinclair » Thu, Jan 09, 2020, 6:50 PM UTC

TacticalTable wrote: post #18

Of the e-scooter startups I've tried, Lime is my favorite. In my smaller city (Indianapolis) we just have Bird and Lime, and Bird's restrictions on hours, locations, and parking make them very difficult to use (They turn themselves off if they leave their range, and many pieces of downtown are considered 'out of bounds'). Meanwhile, the Limes are better distributed around the city, easier to park, and have much more…

> I'm surprised that it was warmer climate cities that underperformed in the US, because I would have expected those to have a much better chance for profit, as cold winter seasons dramatically reduce scooter usage. Too much competition?

I was surprised about this too. Though, from my anecdotal experience, there are a ton of micromobility companies operating in San Diego.