Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline • Hacker News Board

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#21

Post by Someone1234 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #11

maxharris wrote: post #2

To help contextualize this so I understand the situation better, can someone compare and contrast what treatment for debilitating mental health issues such as schizophrenia looks like in Finland vs. the US? The second issue is, In the last 10 years, the “Housing First” programme provided 4,600 homes in Finland. In 2017 there were still about 1,900 people living on the streets . In the US, there are something like hal…

source for 500,000 homeless people in America claim?

The US Government:

> According to the US Department of Housing and Urban Development's Annual Homeless Assessment Report, as of 2018 there were around 553,000 homeless people in the United States on a given night, or 0.17% of the population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_Sta...

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#22

Post by gamblor956 » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

maxharris wrote: post #2

To help contextualize this so I understand the situation better, can someone compare and contrast what treatment for debilitating mental health issues such as schizophrenia looks like in Finland vs. the US? The second issue is, In the last 10 years, the “Housing First” programme provided 4,600 homes in Finland. In 2017 there were still about 1,900 people living on the streets . In the US, there are something like hal…

They never had Reagan, so they still treat mental illness there.

More importantly, Finland allows for the involuntary commitment if the mentally ill. In the US, this is only allowed if the individual presents a danger to themselves or others.

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#23

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:47 PM UTC

rwem wrote: post #5

maxharris wrote: post #3

I take issue with the practice of labeling everyone on the street as "homeless", because the truth is that there are many different causes: * battered spouses fleeing domestic violence * runaway teenagers * veterans whose mental and physical injuries * debilitating mental illness * impossibly high housing costs due to NIMBYism and local regulations * alcoholism, drug, gambling addiction That's not an exhaustive list,…

"We need labels that strike at the heart of each issue" That's pretty much the opposite of the "housing first" approach.

[deleted]

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#24

Post by splitrocket » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #11

maxharris wrote: post #2

To help contextualize this so I understand the situation better, can someone compare and contrast what treatment for debilitating mental health issues such as schizophrenia looks like in Finland vs. the US? The second issue is, In the last 10 years, the “Housing First” programme provided 4,600 homes in Finland. In 2017 there were still about 1,900 people living on the streets . In the US, there are something like hal…

source for 500,000 homeless people in America claim?

The 2018 annual "point in time" count done by the federal housing administration:

https://www.hudexchange.info/resource/5783/2018-ahar-part-1-...

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#25

Post by SpicyLemonZest » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:48 PM UTC

splitrocket wrote: post #17

svantana wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has about 60x the population of Finland, so on a per capita basis the situation (sans programme) seems comparable.

Correct, and generally speaking, economic of scale should apply to social sector programs. In theory, it should be 60x easier for the US to house everyone, simply because we have more resources to aggregate. Even when you compare per capita GDP, Finland's doing it with $50k, while the US is at $62.5k.

Is the US in fact spending less money on homelessness, though? My guess would be that it's spending a comparable amount on a per-person basis.

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#26

Post by Bostonian » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:49 PM UTC

"Those affected by homelessness receive a small apartment and counselling – without any preconditions."

I doubt it will work in Finland in the long run, and even if it does, Finland and the U.S. have very different populations. Most Americans work to put a roof over their head, and it's unfair to them to "unconditionally" give some people housing. It's also a big disincentive to work. The current unemployment rate is 3.5%. There are homeless shelters to prevent people from freezing to death, but that's very different from giving someone their own apartment. Millions of people would love a "small apartment" in Manhattan or San Francisco but cannot afford to live there. Are you going to allocate the apartments to people who are not contributing to society?

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#27

Post by metalrain » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:49 PM UTC

While homelessness might be in decline and shelters have more capacity, you can still find people sleeping on the floors of public pay-per-use toilets in Finland. So no, homelessness is not ended and probably never will be.

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#28

Post by at-fates-hands » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:49 PM UTC

For some perspective:

Finalnd's military budget: 300 million

US military budget: 700 BILLION

The US could dump a lot of money into these social services to address people who are homeless, drug addicts, and other people on the fringes of society.

We are however, constantly put in a place where other nations depend on us for their security. As such, they don't have to have a massive defensive budget when they can rely on us to take care of them.

If we had a military budget that was more inline with simply keeping our own country safe, we would have a ton more money to take care of the people who really need it.

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#29

Post by StavrosK » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:50 PM UTC

maxharris wrote: post #3

I take issue with the practice of labeling everyone on the street as "homeless", because the truth is that there are many different causes: * battered spouses fleeing domestic violence * runaway teenagers * veterans whose mental and physical injuries * debilitating mental illness * impossibly high housing costs due to NIMBYism and local regulations * alcoholism, drug, gambling addiction That's not an exhaustive list,…

Isn't that like saying we should stop calling people "ill" because there are multiple kinds of illness? I think you're just offended by the term and as such want to stop using it to describe people, instead of seeing it as a descriptor of a problem that needs solving.

Re: Finland is the only EU country where homelessness is in decline

#30

Post by mrec » Wed, Jan 08, 2020, 3:51 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #14

ixtli wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anything there should be a more broad term, something that includes people who are housing-unstable. I don't really consider the problem solved if a person worries every day that they might be homeless at the end of the next month!

The term you are looking for is "housing insecurity".

"Roofless" is also a useful term to distinguish people actually sleeping rough from people crashing on friends' couches or in sketchy hostels or maybe squats. It's commonly used in the UK, dunno about elsewhere.