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How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

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Re: How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

#21

Post by roc »

lukeschlather wrote: post #13
InclinedPlane wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't just a clerical error, this is the very reason the FCC exists at all. This would be like the FDA accidentally approving a new drug that gave everyone in a 1 block radius cancer.

Not at all. It's like the FDA approving a drug with a 100 mg /day dose, and a company rolling out a plan for 200 mg /day dose, and trying to convince the FDA that 200 mg is safe. Unless they actually get approval for 200 mg, they're not going to be able to ship.

And continuing the metaphor: having the FDA say "If your self-funded trials say it's Ok, then we're satisfied".

The funny part is, some times, that's how the FDA does work. That's how we wound up with all those depression drugs that were only as effective as a placebo.

Re: How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

#22

Post by aj700 »

mkr-hn wrote: post #18
oigftrgtyh wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Descend until you can see the freeway and follow that is always popular!

It's obvious now that I think about it. Even with GPS, they're going to be told landmarks and indicators (roads and stuff) during a briefing.

Why shouldn't this break military plane GPS as much as anything else. It will also remove the ability of USAF to GPS target missiles onto US population centres, which they have no need to do anyway. They can still bomb the rest of the world no problem.

Re: How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

#23

Post by marshray »

It's possible the LightSquared transmitters will be far more directional than the Garmin test gives them credit for. They may not run full power all the time anyway.

Regardless, it's generally the responsibility of the receiver to ignore signals in another part of the same band, and this is a different band entirely. Perhaps some receivers are built as cheaply as possible and don't have the best filters. If they all break, well, their customers should know not to trust that brand again. Any other policy amounts to no one ever being able to establish new radio service on its own part of the spectrum, on the theory that some other defective other equipment might fall over.

Personally, I think it's far more interesting the prospect of having a network of 20,000 steerable-beam transmitters approved for 15KW ERP each at 1.5GHz. 300MW is about half the output of a typical electrical power plant. If those were networked that could make one hell of an antisatellite weapon, phased-array radar illuminator, or maybe even an SDI-type directed energy weapon.

If the military isn't behind this, well they should be. Maybe that's why the FCC is fast tracking it so much.

Re: How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

#24

Post by winthrowe »

mkr-hn wrote: post #15
kpeel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough, if GPS does get jammed, the USAF has a whole lot of equipment that would be almost useless... Like every modern airplane they own.

We need someone with air force experience in here. It doesn't seem like they'd let them fly without knowing alternate ways of navigating.

I'm not actually air force, but am a bit of an aviation buff with a private license. There would be backup nav systems in manned aircraft, but several popular modern munitions are GPS guided, and I would tend to think that modern battlespace information systems require it as well. Planes wouldn't fall out of the sky, but it would be a significant departure from the ideal state.

Re: How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

#25

Post by jws »

oigftrgtyh wrote: post #10
Kadin wrote: post #9

Ugh, c'mon, people. The FCC isn't planning to destroy GPS. I hate the FCC as much as the next guy on the Internet, but that's too ridiculous for consideration. What they're trying to do is balance the legitimate right that one user has to a piece of spectrum, with the legitimate right that a lot of users have to some that's adjacent. They'd be looking at nothing but an endless series of lawsuits if they told LightSqu…

Has the FCC ever bothered to actually go after people that abuse bits of the spectrum? Wardrobe malfunctions they are right on top of - but anything that requires technical knowledge seems to escape them. GPS does have a group that protects it's users - I believe it's called the USAF.

A few years ago the FCC showed up at a coworker's house with their van. Something in his house was emitting improperly. They eventually tracked it down to a computer monitor.

So there are enforcement people out there. They just don't happen in the middle of a superbowl broadcast.

Re: How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

#26

Post by oomkiller »

kpeel wrote: post #12
oigftrgtyh wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the FCC ever bothered to actually go after people that abuse bits of the spectrum? Wardrobe malfunctions they are right on top of - but anything that requires technical knowledge seems to escape them. GPS does have a group that protects it's users - I believe it's called the USAF.

Funny enough, if GPS does get jammed, the USAF has a whole lot of equipment that would be almost useless... Like every modern airplane they own.

Actually most modern munitions are guided by inertial navigation, mainly so targets can't jam them. Aircraft etc also have this capability. They have known about the risk of jamming since the beginning, so surely they've prepared for it.

Re: How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

#27

Post by mkr-hn »

winthrowe wrote: post #24
mkr-hn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need someone with air force experience in here. It doesn't seem like they'd let them fly without knowing alternate ways of navigating.

I'm not actually air force, but am a bit of an aviation buff with a private license. There would be backup nav systems in manned aircraft, but several popular modern munitions are GPS guided, and I would tend to think that modern battlespace information systems require it as well. Planes wouldn't fall out of the sky, but it would be a significant departure from the ideal state.

If you have time, I wouldn't mind some examples. I'm curious, not doubtful.

Since this thread sprung up I've wondered what might be impacted by a GPS failure.

Re: How The FCC Plans To Destroy GPS – A Simple Explanation

#29

Post by caf »

mkr-hn wrote: post #15
kpeel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough, if GPS does get jammed, the USAF has a whole lot of equipment that would be almost useless... Like every modern airplane they own.

We need someone with air force experience in here. It doesn't seem like they'd let them fly without knowing alternate ways of navigating.

US Military GPS has access to a separate P(Y) signal on the L2 frequency that civilian GPS does not.
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