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New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

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Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#21

Post by thatfrenchguy »

xwdv wrote: post #17
supernova87a wrote: post #3

The piecemeal attempts to create a rational payments system are getting to the point where the Fed just needs to acknowledge the need for a free/secure/unified infrastructure run and regulated by the government. They are starting to do this (Fed real time payment + settlement system) but not fast enough. Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, the scams we endure with mistaken paym…

It’s ok, we laughed at other countries that didn’t have robust credit systems and required people to pay for things with debit cards instead of credit cards, where they could be personally liable for any sort of fraud that takes place with their card.

Nope in other countries you're insured on your debit card as well

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#22

Post by xwdv »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #21
xwdv wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s ok, we laughed at other countries that didn’t have robust credit systems and required people to pay for things with debit cards instead of credit cards, where they could be personally liable for any sort of fraud that takes place with their card.

Nope in other countries you're insured on your debit card as well

Then who cares if it leaves your sight? Why bring a card processor all the way to my table? I doubt they are that well insured.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#23

Post by r3dey3 »

codersarepeople wrote: post #9

This is aimed at solving one of several problems people without bank accounts have. So let's just figure out why people don't have bank accounts and account for that: > People who are unbanked often cite distrust of the banking system, lack of access to government-issued ID, or inability to maintain a minimum balance as reasons they don’t have bank accounts. Seems easy enough to me. Make government-issued IDs free, m…

Many banks have free checking - with no catch (no direct deposit required, no minimum balance required, no max number of checks/withdraws)

I'm also pretty sure I didn't need to show an ID when signing up for a capital one 360 account online.. so even the ID thing is a stretch. but sure, I might accept not having an ID as a valid reason since you may need it to use your debit card and probably will for checks.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#24

Post by butisaidsudo »

xwdv wrote: post #22
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope in other countries you're insured on your debit card as well

Then who cares if it leaves your sight? Why bring a card processor all the way to my table? I doubt they are that well insured.

They bring it so you can enter your PIN, most places don't use signatures.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#25

Post by atonse »

brenden2 wrote: post #4

Generally seems like a good idea, minus the part about it being state owned and operated. If it's operated by the state, it will probably be a disaster. Many governments can barely keep their Windows machines up to date, leading to ransomware attacks. It would be a shame if people's money were held hostage for ransom.

I love how we say this with a straight face and ignore the fact that the best hackers _anywhere_ are mostly currently or formerly employed/trained by the government: NSA, FBI, same with Israeli hackers trained by the IDF, Russian and Chinese hackers, pretty much everyone is a current or former state actor.

So yeah I'd trust NSA lending its talent to securing our payments infrastructure over some of the people that were in that Google thread that got paid 300k to do hardly any work in years. But this is a false dichotomy.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#26

Post by brenden2 »

atonse wrote: post #25
brenden2 wrote: post #4

Generally seems like a good idea, minus the part about it being state owned and operated. If it's operated by the state, it will probably be a disaster. Many governments can barely keep their Windows machines up to date, leading to ransomware attacks. It would be a shame if people's money were held hostage for ransom.

I love how we say this with a straight face and ignore the fact that the best hackers _anywhere_ are mostly currently or formerly employed/trained by the government: NSA, FBI, same with Israeli hackers trained by the IDF, Russian and Chinese hackers, pretty much everyone is a current or former state actor. So yeah I'd trust NSA lending its talent to securing our payments infrastructure over some of the people that we…

I respectfully doubt many talented folks are giving up $500k+/year jobs to work for Uncle Sam at below market rates.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#27

Post by chimeracoder »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #21
xwdv wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s ok, we laughed at other countries that didn’t have robust credit systems and required people to pay for things with debit cards instead of credit cards, where they could be personally liable for any sort of fraud that takes place with their card.

Nope in other countries you're insured on your debit card as well

> Nope in other countries you're insured on your debit card as well

At the time EMV ("chip-and-pin") was first rolled out across most of Europe, cardholders were actually liable for card-present fraud on their cards, whereas they had not been for magnetic stripe card-present fraud. It took a few years for the EU to pass a law changing this. In the meantime, chip-and-pin was actually a downgrade from the customers' perspective.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#28

Post by peterwwillis »

brenden2 wrote: post #4

Generally seems like a good idea, minus the part about it being state owned and operated. If it's operated by the state, it will probably be a disaster. Many governments can barely keep their Windows machines up to date, leading to ransomware attacks. It would be a shame if people's money were held hostage for ransom.

> If it's operated by the state, it will probably be a disaster.

The more I see this meme, the more ridiculous it seems.

The US federal government, the overall governing body of the most powerful nation in the world, employs 2 million people in around 1,760 agencies and manages nearly 1 Trillion dollars. If anything it touched "became a disaster", it would not be able to support the most powerful nation in the world, supporting the world's largest economy by GDP.

States are not the federal government, but they generally follow it as a model, and they generally do a good enough job at managing themselves that everything they touch also does not become a disaster.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#29

Post by atonse »

brenden2 wrote: post #26
atonse wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how we say this with a straight face and ignore the fact that the best hackers _anywhere_ are mostly currently or formerly employed/trained by the government: NSA, FBI, same with Israeli hackers trained by the IDF, Russian and Chinese hackers, pretty much everyone is a current or former state actor. So yeah I'd trust NSA lending its talent to securing our payments infrastructure over some of the people that we…

I respectfully doubt many talented folks are giving up $500k+/year jobs to work for Uncle Sam at below market rates.

No it's the opposite. A lot of people getting $500k were trained by Uncle Sam and left.

My point was that you can't say the government would mess it up when the government (really, many governments as I outlined above) has done a phenomenal job of training many of our best private sector hackers.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#30

Post by Denvercoder9 »

xwdv wrote: post #17
supernova87a wrote: post #3

The piecemeal attempts to create a rational payments system are getting to the point where the Fed just needs to acknowledge the need for a free/secure/unified infrastructure run and regulated by the government. They are starting to do this (Fed real time payment + settlement system) but not fast enough. Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, the scams we endure with mistaken paym…

It’s ok, we laughed at other countries that didn’t have robust credit systems and required people to pay for things with debit cards instead of credit cards, where they could be personally liable for any sort of fraud that takes place with their card.

Those countries also have robust and much more secure systems in place that make card fraud not nearly as common as it is in the US.
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