24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires • Hacker News Board

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#21

Post by legitster » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

bookofjoe wrote: post #11

legitster wrote: post #7

The headline is misleading. In the actual article, these weren't people deliberately trying to create wildfires, just selfish people flouting the fire ban and having a campfire/bbq. Presumably, at least. *Edit: https://www.smh.com.au/national/teenager-among-180-people-fa... More details. There was deliberate arson (like a teenager setting fire to cars), but not intentionally aimed at burning down forests.

From the article: >Police in Australia have arrested and charged two dozen people they say deliberately lit blazes during the wildfire season that has so far killed at least 18 people, destroyed thousands of homes and ravaged over 10 million acres of land. >New South Wales police said that since the beginning of November, 24 people have been charged over allegedly deliberately lighting fires as officers continue to i…

"Deliberately lit blazes" definitely sounds intentional, but the rest of the details is so scant on details other than accidents that I have to presume stupidity over malice.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#22

Post by deith » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

flaque wrote: post #18

mikece wrote: post #10

Wait... it's arson? But the global climate crisis forced these people to set the fires, right? (Just want to get my talking points right.)

Stop with the strawman. A dryer, hotter climate will cause fires to get larger and do more damage. No one says that a hotter climate will cause the initial burn spontaneously.

That's what it sounds like sometimes. "Fires caused by climate change".

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#23

Post by Zenst » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #6

What's the idea there? Insurance fraud, just causing chaos?

May be good intentions due too a little knowledge playout out bad.

For example, somebody knows about firebreaks, seen on TV how easy it looks, do a controlled burn of an area to create that firebreak and they thought - I can do that.

So without going thru court/statements of each case, hard to say for sure and certainly won't be the same brush for all, however the headline spins it. After all, some charges cover a multitude of sins and non-sins and have a stigma associated with them dependant upon the current social trends. So arson charges in the current climate(sic) of Australia would be less socialy popular than somebody charged with murder - least in some parts, that you can bet. Emotions are very high and always will be in any disaster of this scale.

But whatever their level of guilt (or not), that is 24 people who are going to feel pariah.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#24

Post by mikece » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

flaque wrote: post #18

mikece wrote: post #10

Wait... it's arson? But the global climate crisis forced these people to set the fires, right? (Just want to get my talking points right.)

Stop with the strawman. A dryer, hotter climate will cause fires to get larger and do more damage. No one says that a hotter climate will cause the initial burn spontaneously.

You haven't heard all of the news coverage which constantly cite the global climate crisis as a direct contributing factor? It's right in the linked article above:

Quote: There has been much debate about the links between climate change and the fires. Australian National University climate scientist Imran Ahmed told the BBC there was a direct link "because what climate change does is exacerbate the conditions in which the bushfires happen."

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#25

Post by harikb » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

nesky wrote: post #20

> New South Wales police said that since the beginning of November, 24 people have been charged over allegedly deliberately lighting fires as officers continue to investigate the role that arson has played in the devastation. > Police in the state have also taken legal action against a further 159 people. Among them are 53 people who allegedly failed to comply with a total fire ban and 47 people who allegedly discard…

I think this is also part of the disinformation campaign. AU's current administration has a lot bet on proving some other root cause and the not caused by ruling coal lobby.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#26

Post by htfu » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #6

What's the idea there? Insurance fraud, just causing chaos?

People light loose fires everywhere all the time. Overwhelmingly by negligence, sometimes on purpose, and then yes either from strategy or pathology. Though you'd think the former group might want to pick a better time, unless truly sociopathic. Easier to blend in right now, otoh.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#27

Post by AndrewKemendo » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #7

The headline is misleading. In the actual article, these weren't people deliberately trying to create wildfires, just selfish people flouting the fire ban and having a campfire/bbq. Presumably, at least. *Edit: https://www.smh.com.au/national/teenager-among-180-people-fa... More details. There was deliberate arson (like a teenager setting fire to cars), but not intentionally aimed at burning down forests.

Not just the headline, the entire article.

My reaction to the first sentence would be that there are vindictive arsonists out there who tried to set the bush on fire:

Police in Australia have arrested and charged two dozen people they say deliberately lit blazes during the wildfire season that has so far killed at least 18 people, destroyed thousands of homes and ravaged over 10 million acres of land

However if you read it slowly, it simply states that there were people who started fires (of unknown purpose) during a time (wildfire season) when lighting fires for any reason is banned.

The only mention of it being unknown why these started was this, buried about halfway down:

"people flouting total fire bans"

Shoddy journalism at best, clickbait fanning of flames (pun intended) at worst.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#28

Post by ceejayoz » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:42 PM UTC

mikece wrote: post #24

flaque wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop with the strawman. A dryer, hotter climate will cause fires to get larger and do more damage. No one says that a hotter climate will cause the initial burn spontaneously.

You haven't heard all of the news coverage which constantly cite the global climate crisis as a direct contributing factor? It's right in the linked article above: Quote: There has been much debate about the links between climate change and the fires. Australian National University climate scientist Imran Ahmed told the BBC there was a direct link "because what climate change does is exacerbate the conditions in whic…

Climate contributing to the ease of ignition and overall severity of the fires and climate making people into arsonists are two wildly different claims.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#29

Post by legitster » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:44 PM UTC

misterprime wrote: post #17

legitster wrote: post #7

The headline is misleading. In the actual article, these weren't people deliberately trying to create wildfires, just selfish people flouting the fire ban and having a campfire/bbq. Presumably, at least. *Edit: https://www.smh.com.au/national/teenager-among-180-people-fa... More details. There was deliberate arson (like a teenager setting fire to cars), but not intentionally aimed at burning down forests.

That statement is about the 180 people. But read it again and you'll see that 24 were arrested for starting brush fires specifically. Here's another article from the Sydney Morning Herald. https://www.smh.com.au/national/teenager-among-180-people-fa...

Thanks, this has more details.

> Police allege the fires were set to garbage bins, items placed outside for council clean-up, and motor vehicles.

These are definitely arson, but still not people deliberately trying to burn down forests.

Re: 24 people arrested and charged with arson causing Australian wildfires

#30

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

flaque wrote: post #18

mikece wrote: post #10

Wait... it's arson? But the global climate crisis forced these people to set the fires, right? (Just want to get my talking points right.)

Stop with the strawman. A dryer, hotter climate will cause fires to get larger and do more damage. No one says that a hotter climate will cause the initial burn spontaneously.

[deleted]