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People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

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Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#21

Post by foobarbecue »

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #15

I look at this from the opposite perspective, the person who doesn't care much for success and prestige but has to deal with the toxic side-effects of those that do. I grew up an only child in as single parent household where I was taught that it's better to quietly build a stable secure foundation for your life, rather than to put yourself "out there" and hope for the best. My mothers attitude was that it is better…

Reminds me of one of my favorite songs: Craftsmanship by Buck 65 https://g.co/kgs/23qdoM

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#22

Post by bambax »

OT, and possibly unpopular here, but this really gets on my nerves:

> In Paul Graham’s essay on, How to Do what You Love* he warns us about the prestige trap: (...) you have to like the actual work of novel-writing if you’re going to be good at it; you have to like making up elaborate lies*

PG's contempt for anything literary pervades in many of his essays, which may reveal some kind of unhealthy obsession, esp. for someone who brands himself a "writer".

But this quote shows a deep misunderstanding of what literature is. Literature is about the TRUTH. It may be the only way to gain an actual comprehension of human nature.

A novel can be viewed as an experiment: put characters in a controlled setting of your design, and then see what happens. This is the best tool we have for this.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#23

Post by Invictus0 »

bambax wrote: post #22

OT, and possibly unpopular here, but this really gets on my nerves: > In Paul Graham’s essay on, How to Do what You Love* he warns us about the prestige trap: (...) you have to like the actual work of novel-writing if you’re going to be good at it; you have to like making up elaborate lies* PG's contempt for anything literary pervades in many of his essays, which may reveal some kind of unhealthy obsession, esp. for…

I also took issue with that line as it reminded me of a quote from Orwell: "Writing a book is a horrible, exhausting struggle, like a long bout with some painful illness. One would never undertake such a thing if one were not driven on by some demon whom one can neither resist nor understand."

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#24

Post by tonyedgecombe »

jacknews wrote: post #19
lordnacho wrote: post #4

Heh this is only a very mild version of status obsession. To a degree it's actually a good thing to want, so long as you stay committed to doing the actual work of getting successful. What amuses me to no end is when I see a rich guy who wants to keep being in the news. As if to say "see, I actually deserve all this wealth". I've seen several of these people over the years. Somehow the media keep calling them to comm…

"People can't see it, but they are swapping dignity for attention." Nice observation, though in rare cases not necessarily true. The thing is, as you point out, status does actually bring potentially huge benefits; People start to come to you with proposals, rather than the other way. Success/Status attracts opportunity. So to some extent we're hardwired to strive for it.

A friend of mine who was visibly successful in his business told me he got to the point where he would say no to every proposal. Something he thought would be a benefit quickly became a burden.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#25

Post by Zealotux »

owens99 wrote: post #2

Great article. The part that stands out to me: > Unfortunately, after a year of purposely trying, I was still not becoming Elon Musk nor any other “successful” person. Despite reading everyday, meditating, getting up early, taking cold showers, and many more things. There’s a ridiculous amount of bro science in Silicon Valley tech. And this stuff doesn’t matter at all. All that matters is product-market fit.

And opportunities, networking, sometimes ones that are out of your control like family connections, but most importantly maybe: luck.

The survivorship bias is strong at the top.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#27

Post by WJW »

bambax wrote: post #22

OT, and possibly unpopular here, but this really gets on my nerves: > In Paul Graham’s essay on, How to Do what You Love* he warns us about the prestige trap: (...) you have to like the actual work of novel-writing if you’re going to be good at it; you have to like making up elaborate lies* PG's contempt for anything literary pervades in many of his essays, which may reveal some kind of unhealthy obsession, esp. for…

Surely putting imaginary characters in an imaginary setting can only result in stories limited by the authors imagination. If the author does not know all that much about human nature in the first place, only unrealistic stories will be the outcome. Worse, as a reader it is not possible to discern realistic behavior unless you already understand human nature, which makes literature somewhat useless for learning about it.

I would argue that understanding of human nature is a necessary (but not sufficient) element of becoming a good writer, but writing in itself is not necessarily a good way to learn about human nature. As an aside, I'm a bit weirded out by the idea that reading books would be the best way to learn about human nature as opposed to going "out there" and interacting with people.

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#29

Post by goatinaboat »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #16
astuyvenberg wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's precisely my point regarding the rat race - what is one trying to catch up to? Is there economic or social anxiety at 350k/yr which evaporates at 400k/yr?

Absolutely. Purchasing real estate (or even a Tesla, etc) is out of reach for people like me, and likely will be for 10+ years from now. Say someone makes 150% or more of what I make (ergo are valued 150% superior in a fair labor market) and they can save far more and build a their net worth significantly faster even with a more luxurious lifestyle.

Say someone makes 150% or more of what I make (ergo are valued 150% superior in a fair labor market) and they can save far more and build a their net worth significantly faster even with a more luxurious lifestyle

That person thinks the same way about someone who earns 150% more than them... this cycle never stops

Re: People Who Are Obsessed with Success and Prestige

#30

Post by bambax »

WJW wrote: post #27
bambax wrote: post #22

OT, and possibly unpopular here, but this really gets on my nerves: > In Paul Graham’s essay on, How to Do what You Love* he warns us about the prestige trap: (...) you have to like the actual work of novel-writing if you’re going to be good at it; you have to like making up elaborate lies* PG's contempt for anything literary pervades in many of his essays, which may reveal some kind of unhealthy obsession, esp. for…

Surely putting imaginary characters in an imaginary setting can only result in stories limited by the authors imagination. If the author does not know all that much about human nature in the first place, only unrealistic stories will be the outcome. Worse, as a reader it is not possible to discern realistic behavior unless you already understand human nature, which makes literature somewhat useless for learning about…

Events happen in fiction that can be rare and unpleasant to experience oneself IRL... Fiction is a magnifying glass, a condenser.
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