Chrome OS has stalled out • Hacker News Board

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#21

Post by pgeorgi » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:01 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #13

tytso wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Acer C720 used a 3.8 Linux kernel, as documented at [1]. Updating to a new kernel would have required a full QA of the hardware to make sure that the device drivers in a newer kernel still worked correctly with that hardware. [1] https://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-f... Support costs aren't too bad so long as you don't have to update the kernel and requal everything. But newer userspace sta…

The Asus laptop I got in 2009 with Windows 7, has gone through all Windows updates, is now using the very latest Windows 10 version.

And it's great if that works. If it doesn't, you have no recourse, even if the device is only just over 2 years old (or whatever your country's mandated warranty period is).

As happened for my HP laptop whose firmware put the GPU in some high performance state, expecting the Windows driver to clock down as appropriate.

Sadly, Windows upgrades (7->8, 8->10, all the 6month updates to 10 except for the October 2019 one) are "full installs" that run in what is essentially Windows' "safe boot" mode with stock drivers, so there was no clock down.

The result was that I could only update the laptop outdoors in winter when it was freezing, otherwise the laptop powered off mid-upgrade because it ran too hot (which then leads to the upgrade being rolled back, repeat ad nauseum).

Compared to that, the 5-8 years of Chrome OS support cover a really long time (the upgrade path and new OS version are actually tested on the very model I'm running), but it's a trade-off: If you're lucky about the configuration and what newer Windows versions expect, a Windows laptop can be usable for 15 years, but there's definitely luck involved (even though I guess Microsoft is also doing some rather arcane testing on their own, but things slip through and they certainly don't provide any guarantees for what's essentially third-party hardware).

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#22

Post by war1025 » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #12

sly010 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps he meant it's table scraps?

No, https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dogfood#Verb

What the above commenters are getting at is the way the sentence is phrased, it seems to be implying something different from traditional "dogfooding".

Something like table scraps does seem more appropriate in that sentence to me. Unless there is some context that I am just not picking up on.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#23

Post by whywhywhywhy » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

ramenmeal wrote: post #2

Dumb question: > constant crashes, an insanely slow single-core Intel Atom processor, and questionable build quality would make it clear to anyone that it was very much a product built for dogfooding, not as a replacement for your Windows or Mac notebook This use of "dogfooding" confuses me, wouldn't the chromebook being used for dogfooding mean it was meant as a replacement for your windows/mac notebook? Or if not,…

Atom processor might not be a restriction out of choice but out of limitations.

Building a x86 laptop, sourcing processors from Intel is actually much harder than you’d expect if you’re new to the game and doing smaller runs.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#24

Post by ailideex » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #11

Technically Chrome OS has some interesting bits, like its use of virtualization, containers, based on Rust and Go. As general purpose OS, I never got the point of it. Any OS other OS is able to offer browser juggling support alongside the benefits of having a proper OS, better hardware that a Web browser is capable of (does not matter how good is the GPU, Web GL 2.0 can only do so much). And the security story is kin…

I got one for my mom and I'm very happy with how low maintenance it is.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#25

Post by Kipters » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

I often see price being cited as a selling point for Chromebooks, but I have never found them to be really cheap. Maybe it's a regional thing? Looking now on Amazon (.it) I can find a Pixelbook equipped with a measle i5-7Y57, 8 GB of ram and 256 GB SSD for 1999 €. That's crazy.

For that kind of money I could get a 10th gen i7 (where applicable) 16 GB ram/512 GB SSD Surface Laptop 3, Surface Pro 7 or Surface Pro X (including type cover and pen for the Pros) with money to spare.

How is this considered cheap? It's insane

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#26

Post by utopian3 » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:24 PM UTC

Kipters wrote: post #25

I often see price being cited as a selling point for Chromebooks, but I have never found them to be really cheap. Maybe it's a regional thing? Looking now on Amazon (.it) I can find a Pixelbook equipped with a measle i5-7Y57, 8 GB of ram and 256 GB SSD for 1999 € . That's crazy. For that kind of money I could get a 10th gen i7 (where applicable) 16 GB ram/512 GB SSD Surface Laptop 3, Surface Pro 7 or Surface Pro X (i…

I've seen some models in the $200-400 USD range, occasionally they have a sale, but their specs are pretty awful, even by smartphone standards. I don't think I've seen a pixelbook priced at 1999 €, I wonder if that's higher due to cost of tax/tariff/import?

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#27

Post by lllr_finger » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:27 PM UTC

Kipters wrote: post #25

I often see price being cited as a selling point for Chromebooks, but I have never found them to be really cheap. Maybe it's a regional thing? Looking now on Amazon (.it) I can find a Pixelbook equipped with a measle i5-7Y57, 8 GB of ram and 256 GB SSD for 1999 € . That's crazy. For that kind of money I could get a 10th gen i7 (where applicable) 16 GB ram/512 GB SSD Surface Laptop 3, Surface Pro 7 or Surface Pro X (i…

That's probably more directed towards the sub-$300 market, which has at least a handful of options. I've got my wife, kids, and parents all on these devices because they're cheap and easy to use.

I'd prefer spending $300 on something like a refurbished Thinkpad for myself, but realize that might not serve my family's desires.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#28

Post by bluedino » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

pgrote wrote: post #6

Since 2013 the main computer I used was the Acer C720. i3, 4 gig of RAM chromebook. Never had an issue with it. Runs as fast now as it did then. It quit receiving updates in June of 2019. Never understood the thought process behind this as supporting the machine is probably negligible given the platform. I looked at other chromebook solutions, but unless I wanted to spend close to $1000 there was nothing close perfor…

I bought one for something like $149 at Walmart the first few months they came out.

Immediately installed Linux, it ran great. I could see myself still using it to this day.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#29

Post by jasonjayr » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #21

pjmlp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Asus laptop I got in 2009 with Windows 7, has gone through all Windows updates, is now using the very latest Windows 10 version.

And it's great if that works. If it doesn't, you have no recourse, even if the device is only just over 2 years old (or whatever your country's mandated warranty period is). As happened for my HP laptop whose firmware put the GPU in some high performance state, expecting the Windows driver to clock down as appropriate. Sadly, Windows upgrades (7->8, 8->10, all the 6month updates to 10 except for the October 2019 one)…

That is equal parts mortifying and impressive that you diagnosed the root cause and were able to work around it.

I thought windows update failing because an unsupported, never-installed unrelated installer for Netware was in some custom-named obscure backup directory buried 4 levels deep was impressive.

Re: Chrome OS has stalled out

#30

Post by Kipters » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 2:37 PM UTC

lllr_finger wrote: post #27

Kipters wrote: post #25

I often see price being cited as a selling point for Chromebooks, but I have never found them to be really cheap. Maybe it's a regional thing? Looking now on Amazon (.it) I can find a Pixelbook equipped with a measle i5-7Y57, 8 GB of ram and 256 GB SSD for 1999 € . That's crazy. For that kind of money I could get a 10th gen i7 (where applicable) 16 GB ram/512 GB SSD Surface Laptop 3, Surface Pro 7 or Surface Pro X (i…

That's probably more directed towards the sub-$300 market, which has at least a handful of options. I've got my wife, kids, and parents all on these devices because they're cheap and easy to use. I'd prefer spending $300 on something like a refurbished Thinkpad for myself, but realize that might not serve my family's desires.

Yep, I can see some Acer, Lenovo or HP options in that range, but all of them are equipped with Celeron N4xxx CPUs, 4 GB of ram and 64 GB eMMC, not exactly stellar...

I would consider a 500-600€ device with a decent screen, 8 GB and a (swappable?) disk to try ChromeOS out, I feel I'd be wasting money if I were to get a sub-300 one