Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

International evaluation of an AI system for breast cancer screening

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–28 of 28 posts

Re: International evaluation of an AI system for breast cancer screening

#21

Post by keenmaster »

bobcostas55 wrote: post #6
stoicShell wrote: post #2

> Screening mammography aims to identify breast cancer at earlier stages of the disease, when treatment can be more successful. Despite the existence of screening programmes worldwide, the interpretation of mammograms is affected by high rates of false positives and false negatives. Here we present an artificial intelligence (AI) system that is capable of surpassing human experts in breast cancer prediction. [...] >…

How many years did centaurs reign supreme over pure AI in chess? 5-10 maybe? This "both" stuff is just a temporary stop on the way to meat obsolescence.

Agreed. At some point, doctors will be a completely redundant step in analyzing these scans. Even before then, the AI will reduce the amount of labor needed and partially commoditize some medical professionals.

Re: International evaluation of an AI system for breast cancer screening

#22

Post by sanxiyn »

sytelus wrote: post #20

Paywalled scientific research, no source code and the reviewers who don't mind calling run off the mill CNNs as "our AI system". How far Nature has fallen these days? How long before Nature is merely PR agency for the big tech?

Not only is this "no code", it is also "no data"! At least data availability statement is now required so we know data is not publicly available...

Re: International evaluation of an AI system for breast cancer screening

#23

Post by sergers »

There were like 80 different vendors showing assisted ai in many different spaces at RSNA 2019

Well known every major pacs vendor is looking for assisted findings (some have been available for ages, ex: icad bi-rads finding for telling rad to check) or even just case prioritization for radiologists. (Ex: aidoc has an algorithm for brain bleed for case prioritization, not a diagnosis).

They all are employing machine learning really (zebra medical claims 30 million scans processed).

Medical "ai" "algorithms" companies are vastly growing in the past few years

Re: International evaluation of an AI system for breast cancer screening

#24

Post by samuel »

A bit unrelated, but I'm surprised because of how second readings are performed.

_In the UK, each mammogram is interpreted by two readers, and in cases of disagreement, an arbitration process may invoke a third opinion. These interpretations occur serially, such that each reader has access to the opinions of previous readers._

I wonder if it's sensible to condition the opinion of the second radiologist this way. My first impression is that this should be done blindly or the temptation of just confirming the previous reading because of fatigue/lazynes or to avoid confrontation could severely affect the results.

Similarly, a future in which the radiologist gets too much support could just impair their skills and turn them into a sort of a mechanical worker who simply accepts what the AI overlord has decided.

Re: International evaluation of an AI system for breast cancer screening

#25

Post by _Wintermute »

sytelus wrote: post #20

Paywalled scientific research, no source code and the reviewers who don't mind calling run off the mill CNNs as "our AI system". How far Nature has fallen these days? How long before Nature is merely PR agency for the big tech?

Unfortunately the biomedical field gets a bit too excited when Google publishes some work, so what should be minimum requirements get thrown out the window for fear of some other journal getting to publish it.

Re: International evaluation of an AI system for breast cancer screening

#27

Post by 1_over_n »

sanxiyn wrote: post #22
sytelus wrote: post #20

Paywalled scientific research, no source code and the reviewers who don't mind calling run off the mill CNNs as "our AI system". How far Nature has fallen these days? How long before Nature is merely PR agency for the big tech?

Not only is this "no code", it is also "no data"! At least data availability statement is now required so we know data is not publicly available...

https://twitter.com/drhughharvey/status/1212646954477539328

Re: International evaluation of an AI system for breast cancer screening

#28

Post by ariehkovler »

sergers wrote: post #23

There were like 80 different vendors showing assisted ai in many different spaces at RSNA 2019 Well known every major pacs vendor is looking for assisted findings (some have been available for ages, ex: icad bi-rads finding for telling rad to check) or even just case prioritization for radiologists. (Ex: aidoc has an algorithm for brain bleed for case prioritization, not a diagnosis). They all are employing machine l…

> Ex: aidoc has an algorithm for brain bleed for case prioritization, not a diagnosis).

Eh... well it's more complicated than that. These systems CAN diagnose, but their regulatory approval is only for use as an aid, not as a diagnosis tool.

Post reply on HN