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An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

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Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#21

Post by anoncake »

greenshackle2 wrote: post #19
pvaldes wrote: post #4

Autistic children are children, the same full irritating, exhuberant, noisy and magnet for troubles in a small package than before, but with a plus of cleverness, strange ways to do things, uncommon hobbies and extravaganza. The idea that an ill children tired and with less energy than usual would behave better is not a total surprise.

You're thinking of high functioning autistic people, which is understandable because they're the only ones you are likely to meet - a severely autistic child might be non-verbal, and constantly screaming because of sensory overload. You will not meet those because they stay home or institutionalized.

Even high functioning autists tend to have issues. Sensory overload that can be hidden but is still stressful. Being very verbal without noticing that the other person isn't interested in what you've been talking about for the past hour.

Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#22

Post by openasocket »

Are mice considered an effective model for autism? My understanding is we still don't know the exact mechanism of action of autism. Heck, there could be many different mechanisms, and we're lumping people with different underlying conditions into a single category because the symptoms line up. So our model of autism is entirely based on behavior. But if the mechanism of action in these mice is different from humans, you can't make any real predictions about how to treat/manage it.

Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#23

Post by TheFiend7 »

loa_in_ wrote: post #16

There is also at least one study showing (at least) flu infection compelling humans to be more sociable and outgoing, but it was (now that I think of it) conducted by comparing self reported social interaction counts before and after a flu vaccine containing (of course) flu virions. See references in this article, because I have trouble copying them on mobile. https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/darwins-subterr…

I mean, I guess my question is could this be apart of the virus or bacteria's attack vector? Isn't it in the best interest of viruses and bacteria that the host becomes more sociable and therefore improves infection rate.

Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#25

Post by corodra »

openasocket wrote: post #22

Are mice considered an effective model for autism? My understanding is we still don't know the exact mechanism of action of autism. Heck, there could be many different mechanisms, and we're lumping people with different underlying conditions into a single category because the symptoms line up. So our model of autism is entirely based on behavior. But if the mechanism of action in these mice is different from humans,…

"Although findings in mice do not always translate into human treatments, the study may help to guide the development of strategies that could help..."

Pulled right from the article. Studies in mice are simply a way to point in the, hopefully, "right" direction without having to shoot in the dark with human test subjects needlessly.

Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#26

Post by spazx »

Autism is characterized by autistic behavior. You cannot separate autistic behavior from an autistic person, it is simply their nature. These "mouse models" are inaccurate, as they're based on behavioral observations in the mice and likening them to human behavior. We don't really know how autism works and why, and we haven't discovered actual autistic mice. In other words, it's mostly extrapolation.

Anything can "reduce autism symptoms" that can make a neurotypical person unable to behave normally. Autistic behavior IS the normal for autistic people. Heavy sedatives, just like being very sick, can "reduce autism symptoms" since the person would be too tired to exhibit any behaviors at all.

"Look, he's not flapping and pacing! His autism must be cured!" No, you dolt, he's exhausted and miserable from being sick.

Leave autistic people alone and let them be themselves. Seriously, I can't believe some people would rather let their kid die of polio than believe they could be autistic. If you think having an autistic child is that terrible, you probably shouldn't have kids.

Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#27

Post by zozbot234 »

spazx wrote: post #26

Autism is characterized by autistic behavior. You cannot separate autistic behavior from an autistic person, it is simply their nature. These "mouse models" are inaccurate, as they're based on behavioral observations in the mice and likening them to human behavior. We don't really know how autism works and why, and we haven't discovered actual autistic mice. In other words, it's mostly extrapolation. Anything can "re…

> Leave autistic people alone and let them be themselves. Seriously, I can't believe some people would rather let their kid die of polio than believe they could be autistic. If you think having an autistic child is that terrible, you probably shouldn't have kids.

That's very much not the case, unfortunately. Many autistic kids are very low function. Their deviations in behavior are way more serious than just some quirky flipping and pacing.

Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#28

Post by umvi »

loriverkutya wrote: post #12
swebs wrote: post #2

And vaccines prevent infections. So in other words... :P

They are not preventing the infection itself, they are allowing your immune system to kill the infection before it develops into the full blown disease. (No it is not funny, because people and children dying because of this bullshit)

I thought vaccines just contained antigens which are essentially just the receptors; i.e. it's impossible to actually get sick from a vaccine since the actual bacteria/virus is missing. IANAB though, I'm sure there are many kinds of vaccines prepared using many different methods.

Also, I thought the joke was funny; I highly doubt there are any genuine anti-vaxxers in HN comments.

Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#29

Post by mamon »

spazx wrote: post #26

Autism is characterized by autistic behavior. You cannot separate autistic behavior from an autistic person, it is simply their nature. These "mouse models" are inaccurate, as they're based on behavioral observations in the mice and likening them to human behavior. We don't really know how autism works and why, and we haven't discovered actual autistic mice. In other words, it's mostly extrapolation. Anything can "re…

It's weird that it has to be repeated so often on HN, but:

Autism is not a superpower.

Yes, sometimes mildly autistic people can become genius mathematicians, or whatever, but most of autistic people simply cannot function by themselves, they struggle with everyday things. So no, we can't just "leave them alone", we should try and understand what causes autism, and maybe someday we can cure it.

Re: An immune molecule can sometimes influence the social behavior of mice: study

#30

Post by swebs »

openasocket wrote: post #22

Are mice considered an effective model for autism? My understanding is we still don't know the exact mechanism of action of autism. Heck, there could be many different mechanisms, and we're lumping people with different underlying conditions into a single category because the symptoms line up. So our model of autism is entirely based on behavior. But if the mechanism of action in these mice is different from humans,…

>Heck, there could be many different mechanisms, and we're lumping people with different underlying conditions into a single category because the symptoms line up. So our model of autism is entirely based on behavior.

I thought that was already clearly established.

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