How will this relate to 6lowpan, the already existing IP standard for IoT? Or will CHoIP sit on higher level (like eg mqtt)?
Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
21–30 of 364 posts
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#22I am curious if they will include cameras (security / door), because the characteristics of the payload are quite orthogonal to the characteristics of the payload of other smart home devices.
>because the characteristics of the payload are quite orthogonal to the characteristics of the payload of other smart home devices.
how so?
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Considering Apple, Amazon, and Google are already members of the Zigbee alliance, it makes you wonder why it had to be a new working group and not a new group within Zigbee. Its like saying Cowboys, 49ers, Patriots, and the NFL join together to create a new football league.
I'd assume the average person has no clue what Zigbee is. I know I'd never heard of it
Not sure what the general state is now, but as a brand name it was one of the top most popular for at least a good year or two, back when I first got interested in home automation.
(The other two at the time were Z-Wave and X10, with X10 recommended against as obsolete/dying; I ended up settling on Z-Wave, so I stopped paying attention to Zigbee and other competitors)
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been gradually retiring my wifi smart devices in favor of Z-wave because I find them far more reliable and much easier to maintain and manage. It's also a little annoying having a pile of wifi devices whose only purpose is to manage an on-off state consume IP addresses on my network.
Consume IP addresses? There are a bazillion IP addresses. Or are you stuck on IPv4?
Pretty much everyone (especially at home) is using only IPv4. IPv6 is always perpetually on the horizon.
The better argument would have been that using a /23 or /22 subnet should probably be enough for most home automation setups.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#25The reason I can say my smarthome is relatively secure is explicitly because it doesn't use IP. It's good they're trying to standardize, but you're gonna have a problem when you try to use a firewall to inspect what these devices are up to and find that they're all making encrypted tunnels back to their home bases and won't work without them.
This is false sense of security. Industrial SCADA and CAN networks have been found full of vulnerabilities because people assumed they were magically secure by simply not using IP.
You can easily isolate an IP network and inspect its traffic.
You cannot easily inspect less common protocols.
Obscurity and lack of tools never helps security.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been gradually retiring my wifi smart devices in favor of Z-wave because I find them far more reliable and much easier to maintain and manage. It's also a little annoying having a pile of wifi devices whose only purpose is to manage an on-off state consume IP addresses on my network.
Consume IP addresses? There are a bazillion IP addresses. Or are you stuck on IPv4?
Most wireless "smart" devices are IPv4 only but the RFC1918 space is sufficiently huge for a gone network. The annoying part comes in when you have to change the DHCP pool (lots of home hardware doesn't support multiple pools) and possibly re-ip your network. Why much with your network, just to reduce security? I'm a fan of zwave.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been gradually retiring my wifi smart devices in favor of Z-wave because I find them far more reliable and much easier to maintain and manage. It's also a little annoying having a pile of wifi devices whose only purpose is to manage an on-off state consume IP addresses on my network.
Consume IP addresses? There are a bazillion IP addresses. Or are you stuck on IPv4?
Some internet providers restrict users to the number of devices they may have connected to their WiFi network.
Not sure if this is what they’re referring to, but possible.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#28The reason I can say my smarthome is relatively secure is explicitly because it doesn't use IP. It's good they're trying to standardize, but you're gonna have a problem when you try to use a firewall to inspect what these devices are up to and find that they're all making encrypted tunnels back to their home bases and won't work without them.
The reason I can say my smarthome is relatively secure is because I don't allow any of the devices to access the internet. IP or not seems irrelevant.
I think any home automation system should not have to rely on the home owner having a CCNA cert in order to be secure.
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#29I am curious if they will include cameras (security / door), because the characteristics of the payload are quite orthogonal to the characteristics of the payload of other smart home devices.
>because the characteristics of the payload are quite orthogonal to the characteristics of the payload of other smart home devices. how so?
Higher bandwidth. Not sure if that is 'orthogonal' though, seems like the requirement is on the same dimension, just bigger...
Re: Amazon, Apple, Google, and the Zigbee Alliance to develop connectivity standard
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been gradually retiring my wifi smart devices in favor of Z-wave because I find them far more reliable and much easier to maintain and manage. It's also a little annoying having a pile of wifi devices whose only purpose is to manage an on-off state consume IP addresses on my network.
Consume IP addresses? There are a bazillion IP addresses. Or are you stuck on IPv4?
Even if you're on ipv4 and using the 192.168/16 network you've still got >65,000 addresses to work with.