Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 300 posts

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#21

Post by shkkmo »

Shivetya wrote: post #17
swebs wrote: post #5

>Perhaps the only tragedy greater than the criminal destruction of the environment and the lives of the people of the Congo by these companies is the fact that it would be a rounding error on their income statements to fix the problem. Eh, I don't think giving more money to the third world mining companies is going to guarantee they're going to stop using child labor. The simplest and least risky decision for the tec…

the liability is with the mining company and national government of Congo. the companies purchasing products can indeed put pressure on both to improve the working conditions of miners but in the end as with nearly every human tragedy, it comes down to the government to take responsibility for its actions and inaction. nothing changes until the local government has to change it.

> nothing changes until the local government has to change it.

Yes, the US government could pass laws and start fining companies that use child labor is their supply chain. You better bet that losing access to the world's largest consumer economy would force the mining companies to change their practices.

You can choose to absolve yourself of responsibility for the actions of these mining companies, but our collective purchasing choices definitely have a direct causal effect on these types of abuses.

> the liability is with the mining company and national government of Congo.

Asserting that liability can only rest with a single party is simple minded.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#22

Post by WilliamEdward »

ramblerman wrote: post #20
curiousgal wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what makes the parent comment insensitive; "they're just doing it to themselves"..

Insensitive or not, both statements can be true at the same time. I.e. Africa is plagued by bad leadership and corruption, and the west is more than happy to take advantage of the situation.

In a lot of cases Africa's bad leadership is a direct result of the west's former colonial efforts there. Congo in particular suffered at the hands of Belgium. So this sentiment is incomplete.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#23

Post by bjornjaja »

qaq wrote: post #16

I like how people get outraged at US tech giants but gracefully ignore the fact that Glencore which actually is the beneficiary of exploiting the children is based in Europe. It's no small target either with annual revenue of 219.8 billion in 2018 vs Google's 136.

Im sure the lawyers thought of that angle, but the mining company currently doesn’t do anything to effect change so they probably won’t unless their customers (tech companies) demand a change.

It really is unfortunate. The mining company should build out proper infrastructure but I’m guessing they just delegate to (corrupt) locals.

This is no different than all the global environmental issues we’re facing with large scale production facilities (bottled water, petroleum, etc. are a huge problem too). The indigenous populations are getting fucked over because they live in remote areas prime for exploitation. Then the factories close down and don’t clean anything up.

I should point out this is also happening in developed countries like Canada and the USA. For instance, what is the difference between children mining cobalt and children being exposed to mercury poisoning because their rivers upstream there’s a paper plant dumping toxic waste into the food supply in Ontario, or petrol industry in Texas poisoning neighboring schools with chemical fumes.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#24

Post by roboys »

ramblerman wrote: post #20
curiousgal wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what makes the parent comment insensitive; "they're just doing it to themselves"..

Insensitive or not, both statements can be true at the same time. I.e. Africa is plagued by bad leadership and corruption, and the west is more than happy to take advantage of the situation.

Africa is still colonized, so this idea that they picked "bad leaders" is comical. I would expect the owner of Glencore have more say in the next leader in some of these countries than the actual population.

Time to stop blaming the victims of crimes Europeans have been committing for 2-3+ centuries? now...

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#25

Post by curiousgal »

ramblerman wrote: post #20
curiousgal wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what makes the parent comment insensitive; "they're just doing it to themselves"..

Insensitive or not, both statements can be true at the same time. I.e. Africa is plagued by bad leadership and corruption, and the west is more than happy to take advantage of the situation.

That's not really my point. Jumping to the fact that corruption plagues Africa immediately is what makes the comment insensitive.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#26

Post by gwbas1c »

steve-benjamins wrote: post #9
swebs wrote: post #5

>Perhaps the only tragedy greater than the criminal destruction of the environment and the lives of the people of the Congo by these companies is the fact that it would be a rounding error on their income statements to fix the problem. Eh, I don't think giving more money to the third world mining companies is going to guarantee they're going to stop using child labor. The simplest and least risky decision for the tec…

I think the assumption is that ethical suppliers would be more expensive and that these companies have the margins to pay more.

> You see, two-thirds of the global supply of cobalt comes from the Congo. So already, right there, you cannot avoid Congolese cobalt.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#27

Post by dopamean »

ptah wrote: post #13
swebs wrote: post #5

>Perhaps the only tragedy greater than the criminal destruction of the environment and the lives of the people of the Congo by these companies is the fact that it would be a rounding error on their income statements to fix the problem. Eh, I don't think giving more money to the third world mining companies is going to guarantee they're going to stop using child labor. The simplest and least risky decision for the tec…

> third world mining companies Glencore headquarters is in Switzerland

And they have third world mining operations.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#28

Post by saiya-jin »

steve-benjamins wrote: post #9
swebs wrote: post #5

>Perhaps the only tragedy greater than the criminal destruction of the environment and the lives of the people of the Congo by these companies is the fact that it would be a rounding error on their income statements to fix the problem. Eh, I don't think giving more money to the third world mining companies is going to guarantee they're going to stop using child labor. The simplest and least risky decision for the tec…

I think the assumption is that ethical suppliers would be more expensive and that these companies have the margins to pay more.

Yes but more expensive suppliers might not be automatically more ethical. Just throwing money at the problem won't magically fix it on its own without some additional effort, probably just ends up as more fat bonuses at Glencore HQ

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#29

Post by qaq »

bjornjaja wrote: post #23
qaq wrote: post #16

I like how people get outraged at US tech giants but gracefully ignore the fact that Glencore which actually is the beneficiary of exploiting the children is based in Europe. It's no small target either with annual revenue of 219.8 billion in 2018 vs Google's 136.

Im sure the lawyers thought of that angle, but the mining company currently doesn’t do anything to effect change so they probably won’t unless their customers (tech companies) demand a change. It really is unfortunate. The mining company should build out proper infrastructure but I’m guessing they just delegate to (corrupt) locals. This is no different than all the global environmental issues we’re facing with large…

This is not a mishap Glencore is tied to so much corruption (ties to every dictator imaginable)and despicable practices across the globe.

Re: Tech giants sued over deaths of children who mine cobalt

#30

Post by Klinky »

bluGill wrote: post #8
SQueeeeeL wrote: post #6

I feel like this is essentially trying to sue capitalism. Of course most raw materials people get is essentially sourced from exploitation. That's just the result of buying for the cheapest cost. People don't like seeing how the sausage gets made, like the John Oliver segment on children making clothes, if they shut this down it will just pop up again with another company...

Most capitalists fear public relations and won't use child or slave labor anywhere in their supply chain if they can help it. When the customer might boycott you for something you stand to lose far more than gain by doing it anyway.

This assumes perfect information for the consumer. Most capitalist wouldn't advertise they use child labor even if they did. Sweep it under the rug, and focus on the marketing budget instead. Then many consumers are apathetic to a lot of things, they may not care enough that some children they never knew died. Relying on the invisible hand to affect social change often results in invisible results, because the results don't actually exist.
Post reply on HN