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Google claims copyright on employee side projects

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Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#21

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

This is common behavior in any business or industry that protects its interests via intellectual property. Monsanto comes to mind with your big farm reference.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone asks you to bring wine or beer to a party, do you usually bring both? Because that would still be valid in an OR statement but basing your ordinary life decisions on boolean logic doesn't always work out like you expect it. If a contract is written as: You own things you make on your own time unless you're using company equipment provided: * The thing does not relate to company business * The thing does no…

Yes, I think that if someone asked me to bring "wine or beer" to a party, literally everyone I know would be fine with me bringing a bit of both. In fact, what would be weird would be someone objecting to my bringing both on the grounds that they meant, but didn't say, "xor". I don't think this contract is ambiguous in natural language. Or is generally inclusive, and if you want xor you either write xor or use some c…

I would call them out if they object and was to sloopy to write "either X or Y"

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone asks you to bring wine or beer to a party, do you usually bring both? Because that would still be valid in an OR statement but basing your ordinary life decisions on boolean logic doesn't always work out like you expect it. If a contract is written as: You own things you make on your own time unless you're using company equipment provided: * The thing does not relate to company business * The thing does no…

Yes, I think that if someone asked me to bring "wine or beer" to a party, literally everyone I know would be fine with me bringing a bit of both. In fact, what would be weird would be someone objecting to my bringing both on the grounds that they meant, but didn't say, "xor". I don't think this contract is ambiguous in natural language. Or is generally inclusive, and if you want xor you either write xor or use some c…

XOR is the natural use of or in English. Do you want to get subs or pizza? Are you going to vote for A or B?

Logical OR is often written as ‘and or’. Do you want to see a movie and or get dinner? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And/or

That said it’s not a universal standard and like most of English has wide regional differences.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#24

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

This is mostly a US thing. If I don't implement a DIRECT competitor to my company in my free time, the company can do absolutely nothing about it here. IF I implement a competitor and put it on the market, they can fire me. They can't however, sue me for the posession of the software. That's just a legal nightmare in the US.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#25

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

Animation studios will try and make you sign contracts that say they own anything and everything you pitch to them, regardless of whether they pick it up.

You can get around this or have the contracts modified if you have good representation, but most artists don’t or can’t afford to. I also know for a fact that studios use these clauses to mine and steal ideas from struggling artists.

IMO, America is far too biased overall towards employer versus employee rights and this is a problem in a lot of fields.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#26
post #20

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

Wait on earth would a Michelin restaurant be able to ‚claim copyright‘ on what one of their chefs does in his free time? As long as said cook doesn‘t say „Michelin star chef from Restaurant X is offering you this dish‘ (which would possibly be a trademark issue, but still not copyright) I don‘t see how this could possibly be forbidden. Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please. It‘s just that soft…

I mean, the restaurant claiming copyright on e.g. recipies is the same situation as whatever is going on here.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#27
I was lucky that I've always had my own projects/products and I was employed as a full time software developer only once in my life. During the hiring they brought me a contract that had this sleazy IP clause. I told them that there is no way I can sign anything like that but will be more then happy to sign simple and fair non compete clause. The employer did just that: they replaced the IP ownership clause.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#28
post #20

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

Wait on earth would a Michelin restaurant be able to ‚claim copyright‘ on what one of their chefs does in his free time? As long as said cook doesn‘t say „Michelin star chef from Restaurant X is offering you this dish‘ (which would possibly be a trademark issue, but still not copyright) I don‘t see how this could possibly be forbidden. Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please. It‘s just that soft…

> Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please.

In my country, it's generally illegal to work for a company also work for a competitor. It's a breach of the duty of loyalty to your employer.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#29
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think that if someone asked me to bring "wine or beer" to a party, literally everyone I know would be fine with me bringing a bit of both. In fact, what would be weird would be someone objecting to my bringing both on the grounds that they meant, but didn't say, "xor". I don't think this contract is ambiguous in natural language. Or is generally inclusive, and if you want xor you either write xor or use some c…

XOR is the natural use of or in English. Do you want to get subs or pizza? Are you going to vote for A or B? Logical OR is often written as ‘and or’. Do you want to see a movie and or get dinner? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/And/or That said it’s not a universal standard and like most of English has wide regional differences.

I think whether "or" means inclusive or or xor is in fact ambiguous and determined by context in English. I think if you as a megacorp write ambiguous contracts and try to enforce them against your employees, you do not deserve a sympathetic interpretation from the courts.

Re: Google claims copyright on employee side projects

#30
post #20

Does society accept this behaviour outside tech? Imagine that a Michelin restaurant would claim copyright on the dishes cooked by the chef in his spare time. Or that the big farm would ask for a piece of those carrots grown in the back yard.

Wait on earth would a Michelin restaurant be able to ‚claim copyright‘ on what one of their chefs does in his free time? As long as said cook doesn‘t say „Michelin star chef from Restaurant X is offering you this dish‘ (which would possibly be a trademark issue, but still not copyright) I don‘t see how this could possibly be forbidden. Everybody is allowed to have more than one job if they please. It‘s just that soft…

Recipes cannot be copyrighted.

https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ33.pdf

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