A Design for Death • Hacker News Board

Re: A Design for Death

#21

Post by at_a_remove » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 1:27 AM UTC

skinkestek wrote: post #2

The secular problem with this: How do we make sure that people aren't forced into this?

Most people are forced into it -- by things like pain, suffering, and the prospect of a future featuring more of the same.

What you're really getting at is being forced into it by humans and/or groups of humans, and when it comes to that, you'll have to delineate your categories, identify incentives, and then either counter those or eliminate them.

Two to consider would be greedy relatives looking for some kind of inheritance and health insurance companies hoping to avoid another million dollars in keeping someone alive.

Re: A Design for Death

#22

Post by uoaei » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 1:29 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #16

I can't manage to read this. At one time, I likely would have taken the euthanasia option if it had been available to me. My life remains a living hell in some ways, but mostly for financial/social reasons. My physical suffering is substantially less. I can't begin to express both how very much I am for the right to die and how very much I know that, given an easy out, most people won't do the hard stuff. So somethin…

Dr. Death IRL:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian

Re: A Design for Death

#23

Post by sokoloff » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 1:32 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> The front-runner in the one-way journey to Switzerland is a New Zealander whom Nitschke has known for years. She’s not terminally ill, but is becoming increasingly disabled by macular degeneration – something she finds intolerable after a lifetime of reading for pleasure. I am not so sure society is ready to embrace commercial euthanasia for non-fatal, non-painful diseases. Should someone with age related deafness…

Why ought people not be able to request their own euthanasia? It seems like that's the ultimate form of self-determination. (I'm all for reasonable controls around it to ensure that it's a properly considered decision and not done on a whim or in an acute bout of feeling poorly, but I don't think that it needs a societally acceptable explanation, just a consistent, considered choice by the patient.)

Re: A Design for Death

#24

Post by k__ » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 1:42 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #16

I can't manage to read this. At one time, I likely would have taken the euthanasia option if it had been available to me. My life remains a living hell in some ways, but mostly for financial/social reasons. My physical suffering is substantially less. I can't begin to express both how very much I am for the right to die and how very much I know that, given an easy out, most people won't do the hard stuff. So somethin…

"Chronically ill or disabled men are much more likely to marry someone and let her physically take care of him"

I had the impression women tend more to fill the void that is "the meaning of life" with helping people. Many younger ones simply got some children and the older ones got a partner they could look after.

While helping others is generally a good thing, it also makes them more prone to being exploited than men.

Re: A Design for Death

#25

Post by DoreenMichele » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 1:49 AM UTC

k__ wrote: post #24

DoreenMichele wrote: post #16

I can't manage to read this. At one time, I likely would have taken the euthanasia option if it had been available to me. My life remains a living hell in some ways, but mostly for financial/social reasons. My physical suffering is substantially less. I can't begin to express both how very much I am for the right to die and how very much I know that, given an easy out, most people won't do the hard stuff. So somethin…

"Chronically ill or disabled men are much more likely to marry someone and let her physically take care of him" I had the impression women tend more to fill the void that is "the meaning of life" with helping people. Many younger ones simply got some children and the older ones got a partner they could look after. While helping others is generally a good thing, it also makes them more prone to being exploited than me…

I'm currently broke and so not in the mood to explain it again like the entire world is five year's old. That never appears to do any good whatsoever anyway.

Suffice it to say I have six years of college and I've been divorced more than a decade -- and celibate for medical reasons the entire time, so not looking for some man to "take care of," which isn't really my cup of tea anyway -- and the degree to which my gender is a factor in my intractable poverty makes me spit nails.

Re: A Design for Death

#26

Post by Kenji » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:01 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #16

I can't manage to read this. At one time, I likely would have taken the euthanasia option if it had been available to me. My life remains a living hell in some ways, but mostly for financial/social reasons. My physical suffering is substantially less. I can't begin to express both how very much I am for the right to die and how very much I know that, given an easy out, most people won't do the hard stuff. So somethin…

Wow, you managed to turn the deep philosophical questions of suicide into gender wars (boy vs. girl, man vs. woman). Good job, you get ten moron points. Instead of focusing on the actual question, namely "to be or not to be", you focus on divisive identity politics.

Re: A Design for Death

#27

Post by Gatsky » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:18 AM UTC

I think it is of note that voluntary euthanasia is becoming a more important issue at the present time. Due to various medical advancements and improved analgesia and supportive care, suffering is less now than at any other time in history.

One possibility is the particular life experiences and trajectory of the boomers is driving the phenomenon. Or maybe it is just the growing number of elderly and increasingly infirm.

Re: A Design for Death

#28

Post by PeterisP » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:21 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> The front-runner in the one-way journey to Switzerland is a New Zealander whom Nitschke has known for years. She’s not terminally ill, but is becoming increasingly disabled by macular degeneration – something she finds intolerable after a lifetime of reading for pleasure. I am not so sure society is ready to embrace commercial euthanasia for non-fatal, non-painful diseases. Should someone with age related deafness…

Well, one could argue that quality of life is quite subjective and who better to judge that than the person themselves?

Quoting the article, "Then came the elective death in May 2018 of Nitschke’s friend, the 104-year-old botanist David Goodall, who refused to declare any serious condition beyond being “tired of life”" - there's a precedent there.

Re: A Design for Death

#29

Post by defined » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #23

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #15

> The front-runner in the one-way journey to Switzerland is a New Zealander whom Nitschke has known for years. She’s not terminally ill, but is becoming increasingly disabled by macular degeneration – something she finds intolerable after a lifetime of reading for pleasure. I am not so sure society is ready to embrace commercial euthanasia for non-fatal, non-painful diseases. Should someone with age related deafness…

Why ought people not be able to request their own euthanasia? It seems like that's the ultimate form of self-determination. (I'm all for reasonable controls around it to ensure that it's a properly considered decision and not done on a whim or in an acute bout of feeling poorly, but I don't think that it needs a societally acceptable explanation, just a consistent, considered choice by the patient.)

And from the article: "But I know what I don’t want. I don’t want to be stuffed full of tubes with doctors hovering over me, pleased with themselves for keeping my heart beating for another five minutes, eking out every last painful second. That, to me, is dystopia.”

My feelings exactly.

Re: A Design for Death

#30

Post by k__ » Tue, Dec 17, 2019, 2:40 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #25

k__ wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chronically ill or disabled men are much more likely to marry someone and let her physically take care of him" I had the impression women tend more to fill the void that is "the meaning of life" with helping people. Many younger ones simply got some children and the older ones got a partner they could look after. While helping others is generally a good thing, it also makes them more prone to being exploited than me…

I'm currently broke and so not in the mood to explain it again like the entire world is five year's old. That never appears to do any good whatsoever anyway. Suffice it to say I have six years of college and I've been divorced more than a decade -- and celibate for medical reasons the entire time, so not looking for some man to "take care of," which isn't really my cup of tea anyway -- and the degree to which my gend…

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend.