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The Feedback Fallacy

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21–30 of 68 posts

Re: The Feedback Fallacy

#21
How the author seems to get and present such a distorted view of the original Netflix culture slides (which we modeled quite a lot of our original culture from) is completely beyond me. Nowhere did anybody say that feedback should be a one sided activity, here's the original source for your reference:

https://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664/11-11Com...

The "Communication" slide (p.11) even _starts_ with the skill of listening rather than talking well.

We're living an open, candid, two sided feedback culture in our company and it's by far the best thing that has ever happened to my personal development. The impact on my own perception and management style has been tremendous. Maybe I'm biased by being a founder, but on our most recent anonymous employee survey, structured feedback got an average 8/10 on satisfaction.

I take that just like the original ideas of Scrum or Agile, transparent Feedback culture has apparently been bastardized enough by toxic companies living the letter but not the spirit that it's apparently starting to get into a negative perception... that's a pity but won't stop us from giving and getting transparent feedback regularly.

Re: The Feedback Fallacy

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is arguing that the real signal is zero and the systematic error is large, so you will always end up converging on a repeatable but useless value. Technically, taking only one sample could have gotten you closer because there is a 50% chance that the random error would have gone in the opposite direction to the systemic error, although the author is wrong to phrase that like it's some kind of advantage, be…

They say later that > When a feedback instrument surveys eight colleagues about your business acumen, your score of 3.79 is far greater a distortion than if it simply surveyed one person about you—the 3.79 number is all noise, no signal. Which implies to me that they believe there is signal there, but that it goes away when aggregated?

Yeah, I'd like to see what statistical theory they are using here. I don't think it's sound. It's unfortunate since I think the article is otherwise quite good.

Re: The Feedback Fallacy

#23
post #4
post #3

I like the simple actionable advice near the end in the "Explore the present, past, and future" section. The authors' biographies just below that caught my attention: Ashley Goodall is the senior vice president of leadership and team intelligence at Cisco Systems and a coauthor of Nine Lies About Work: A Freethinking Leader’s Guide to the Real World Cisco Systems is the kind of giant multinational conglomerate that I…

Ever since I read McKinsey's "in search of excellence" I've been a bit skeptical of these sort of "to run your company better just follow this one weird trick" pieces. The book when I read it was quite convincing, but when I read the results of the companies cited as "excellent" by the book later on, about half had gone bankrupt or otherwise ceased trading! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of_Excellence

Of course there is the question whether a company's goal should be to be around forever or be excellent for some time.

Re: The Feedback Fallacy

#25
This is so good. But if you work in a place that uses structured feedback, imagine showing this to someone in your organization and having it meaningfully change anything. At best you’ll be seen as raining on the parade.

Re: The Feedback Fallacy

#27
Hey, we're in my territory!

Something to note is this premise is disputed by A LOT of experts in this domain. They've been challenged to a debate on this by Marc Effron (not my favorite guy but does generally have grounded thinking in his work) with proceeds benefiting charity but no uptake yet. They have also not shared their data in a way that enables replication or outside validation (or hadn't lest I checked). They is a pretty robust history of peer-reviewed research that doesn't come to the same conclusion.

I think they are on to something here but I think they are taking too far. For their "Source of Truth" section, most of what they say is true, particularly about rating and assessment of employees. Extending that to say suggestions on future behavior from others is also value-less is wrong. The former is problematic because it's treated as a source of objective truth that personnel decisions are made against, the latter is clearly a single subjective data point people can reflect on and potentially integrate into future behavior.

For "How We Learn" section, much of the words written are true but the conclusion goes beyond what I have seen data justify. Yes, we get better faster at the things we're already better at. Should that mean focusing on strengths is often a better coaching direction than weaknesses, yes. Does that mean we shouldn't do the latter or that it is value-less? No. It does mean we have to find ways to make weakness-oriented feedback happen in a repeatably non-threatening way.

On the "Excellence" section I'm again in agreement with most of it, but have fewer overall critiques. I should think more about this. I still say the conclusions are not natural endpoints for the points he makes.

Then, interestingly there is a table near the bottom. I find it interesting that many of those things you should "Try" rather than "Instead of" are indeed types of feedback and modern organizational development professionals espouse. Language really does matter, that's a great table with great suggestions, and most of those are feedback prompts.

All that said, I truly like Marcus Buckingham and find his work to typically be evidence-based (to the extent work like this can be) and on solid ground. Here is a brief video of him that is on a related topic that I think everyone should really take to heart if interested in this topic. https://www.marcusbuckingham.com/rwtb/performance-management...

Re: The Feedback Fallacy

#28
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is arguing that the real signal is zero and the systematic error is large, so you will always end up converging on a repeatable but useless value. Technically, taking only one sample could have gotten you closer because there is a 50% chance that the random error would have gone in the opposite direction to the systemic error, although the author is wrong to phrase that like it's some kind of advantage, be…

? I still don't get it.

Averaging values with random divergence from the truth is useful. Averaging values with random divergence from nonsense is not.

Re: The Feedback Fallacy

#29
Agreed feedback is tough. One of the problems is that it depends a lot on the setting and team. A person in one team might get some kind of feedback, but in another team the same person could get the opposite advice.

The other problem in our industry being relative inexperience of many people. When everyone in the team has had < 5yrs experience who is really qualified to objectively describe what a person is doing wrong? I know when I was a an inexperienced manager I gave "constructive feedback" that I now recognize was wrong.

Re: The Feedback Fallacy

#30
> The only realm in which humans are an unimpeachable source of truth is that of their own feelings and experiences

Side note, but this strikes me as extremely wrong, based on 35 years of living among humans. Humans have unsurpassed abilities of self-deception, cognitive dissonance tolerance, and building monumental mental models to hide the truth about themselves from themselves.

As one economist put it, your 'self' isn't the CEO, it's the PR department. You produce a PR-approved spin of your own experiences and feelings for your internal, conscious consumption.

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