What I'd really like to see is a full stack clojurescript framework like next.js or meteor. I think fulcro comes close but it uses JVM clojure on the server side, so it's not entirely possible to re-use code on either end.
Using Clojure for Web Apps
21–30 of 122 posts
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#22Honest question, does anyone actually gain anything from reading slides without hearing the actual talk?
Honest answer: I feel like I did.
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#23I've been slowly learning Lisp to hack on Emacs, org-mode and org-babel. Main goal being to turn AWS JSON data into org-mode headings and org-babel data to do further work on. Very much a side project and I'm a bear of very little brain, so it's taking me a long long time. Seeing Clojure and other Lisp stuff in the wild gives me hope that I can lean on enough people's documentation and source that I can eventually le…
> I know some folks sneer a little at Lisp
I wonder why.
Some developers I know and hold in high regard have almost venerated Lisp, so I've always thought there must be something to it. I just thought it wasn't something you could actually use IRL, but I was wrong. I found this out when I was recently motivated to learn Clojure, and now I am starting to grok their admiration.
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#24Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've used Luminus to fill that space, and I gotta say I don't think that's the best way to go for Clojure. Getting started with Luminus was fine, but it was often very confusing and I didn't understand a lot, whereas when I added things as I needed them and checked out a couple libraries, I had a lot easier time debugging what was wrong. What's going to make Coast different?
IMO languages like Clojure (or Go) don’t need a fully powered batteries included web framework like Rails or Django. The approach to pick together what you actually need (router, db bits and pieces, etc) with composable libraries works really great
After having gone through this, I now disagree.
There are a vast many things in which I am not an expert. The pick and choose / compose your libraries / lego approach sounds great until your trying to weigh different options (of which none seem to have a wide enough install base to be truly battle tested).
Is buddy/buddy-auth the way to go for security? Or is it Friend? The former seems to receive more recommendations as of late, whereas the latter has more activity on github. These are not the problems I want to be solving when building something.
I love the language, but the quality of Clojure's web ecosystem is... questionable.
If I were to build another webapp in Clojure, I think I'd just use something widely installed like Jersey for actually interfacing with the outside world. It'll be crufty Java, but it has nice things like StackOverflow activity, massive docs, giant userbase, etc.. etc..
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#25I've been slowly learning Lisp to hack on Emacs, org-mode and org-babel. Main goal being to turn AWS JSON data into org-mode headings and org-babel data to do further work on. Very much a side project and I'm a bear of very little brain, so it's taking me a long long time. Seeing Clojure and other Lisp stuff in the wild gives me hope that I can lean on enough people's documentation and source that I can eventually le…
> I know some folks sneer a little at Lisp I wonder why. Some developers I know and hold in high regard have almost venerated Lisp, so I've always thought there must be something to it. I just thought it wasn't something you could actually use IRL, but I was wrong. I found this out when I was recently motivated to learn Clojure, and now I am starting to grok their admiration.
It will depend on whom you talk to - perhaps how old they are, and certainly where they come from (experience wise, education wise, etc.)
The usual easy excuse is about parens, but that complaint has been put to rest so many times that it's not worth replying to anymore. (And people said the same thing about Python whitespace, but now Python is at or near the top of the pile.)
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#26What I'd really like to see is a full stack clojurescript framework like next.js or meteor. I think fulcro comes close but it uses JVM clojure on the server side, so it's not entirely possible to re-use code on either end.
I don’t think Fulcro knows how it is being served. I don’t see why you couldn’t serve it from Node if that’s your thing.
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've used Luminus to fill that space, and I gotta say I don't think that's the best way to go for Clojure. Getting started with Luminus was fine, but it was often very confusing and I didn't understand a lot, whereas when I added things as I needed them and checked out a couple libraries, I had a lot easier time debugging what was wrong. What's going to make Coast different?
IMO languages like Clojure (or Go) don’t need a fully powered batteries included web framework like Rails or Django. The approach to pick together what you actually need (router, db bits and pieces, etc) with composable libraries works really great
This seems common in the Go culture, but I don't see at all why the language points in that direction (apart from Go having plenty of that in a barebones form in the std lib, of course).
What language can't compose libs?
The main problem is whether developers can.
To me this often is "mental dark mode". You think you're more efficient, but usually aren't.
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMO languages like Clojure (or Go) don’t need a fully powered batteries included web framework like Rails or Django. The approach to pick together what you actually need (router, db bits and pieces, etc) with composable libraries works really great
After having gone through this, I now disagree. There are a vast many things in which I am not an expert. The pick and choose / compose your libraries / lego approach sounds great until your trying to weigh different options (of which none seem to have a wide enough install base to be truly battle tested). Is buddy/buddy-auth the way to go for security? Or is it Friend? The former seems to receive more recommendation…
You express exactly what has kept me from doing webdev with Clojure, despite my (now perhaps irrational) love for the language.
I will learn whichever language allows me to get my site/app done as quickly as possible at first. Later after I have refined and refactored enough to know what's up... then I may decide to change.
Nextjs (despite the javascript), Rails (Ruby is great!... not Clojure, but pretty good), Django (Python is low-pain, low-effort), etc. are all easy quick ways to actually get something done BEFORE you really know what you're doing. This is critically important for those of us who don't spend all our time doing public-facing web apps.
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've used Luminus to fill that space, and I gotta say I don't think that's the best way to go for Clojure. Getting started with Luminus was fine, but it was often very confusing and I didn't understand a lot, whereas when I added things as I needed them and checked out a couple libraries, I had a lot easier time debugging what was wrong. What's going to make Coast different?
IMO languages like Clojure (or Go) don’t need a fully powered batteries included web framework like Rails or Django. The approach to pick together what you actually need (router, db bits and pieces, etc) with composable libraries works really great
It sort of guarantees that in a couple of years time half your stack will then be unmaintained, though (at least in my 10 years of Clojure experience).
Re: Using Clojure for Web Apps
#30We use pedestal+fulcro3+pathom om.next was before that, but it seems to be almost abandoned, also fulcro author have solved a lot of depressing pain points of om.next. Those three work like a perfect Lego.
I'm thinking of writing a project with a similar stack, is there any chance your code is open source? Also, what's your experience with Fulcro been like? Do you have any thoughts about it in comparison with other Clojure SPA libraries like re-frame?