Earlier quoted context omitted.
Prosecutors and defense council don't get an infinite amount of vetoes
There is a limit on peremptory challenges, for which no reason needs to be given. But I don't think there is a limit on for-cause dismissals.
California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
21–30 of 169 posts
Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a limit on peremptory challenges, for which no reason needs to be given. But I don't think there is a limit on for-cause dismissals.
If dismissing people for felonies was a valid cause by itself, then this law would be completely meaningless, that wouldn't escape a judge overseeing the proceedings.
But I would guess that few felons will make it onto juries, and the ones that do will endure embarrassing questions during jury selections, in front of a room full of their peers, about their past crimes and whether or not they are now sufficiently honest citizens.
Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
If it offsets the vast amounts of delusional people who have absolutely no concept of the real world and all its dangers, then I'm all for it. People who've been to prison are much more likely to be grounded in visceral reality and weigh things properly compared to much of our increasingly sheltered society, especially along the coasts.
Isn't a failure to judge something correctly the reason they went to prison in the first place? Are you saying they're so well reformed that their judgement now exceeds that of normal people? In that case, there must be other jobs their superior ability to weigh things can be useful.
Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#24The title is misleading -- someone convicted of a felony is still a felon after being released from prison. Juries create labelled data -- defendants are found guilty or not guilty -- but how do we know what characteristics of juries are likely to result in the most accurate verdicts, since we don't have a measure of whether defendants are truly guilty or innocent? Has anyone looked at what jury characteristics predi…
> The title is misleading -- someone convicted of a felony is still a felon after being released from prison. Perhaps it's time for the US to follow the lead of most of its common law brethren in the Commonwealth and get rid of the terms "misdemeanour" and "felony".
its common law brethren in the Commonwealth
You mean the one that sent thousands of convicts thousands of miles across the ocean to an inhuman hellhole?Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#25I've served on a jury in CA and have seen jury selection on a couple occasions. Based on what I've seen, I think it will remain highly unlikely that a convicted felon will make their way onto a jury of a criminal trial (civil trials might be more likely). In the standard questionnaire that prospective jurors are given, they are asked if they or members of their immediate family have been victims of a crime, or if the…
The woman being questioned for jury duty was asked about being a victim of crime. She said, "I've been a bank teller for over 20 years. I've been robbed at gunpoint three times, and every time it was a black man. Black men are always guilty".
I was shocked she would say such a thing, but even more shocked to see her back the next day. She wasn't dismissed.
Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#26Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#27Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#28I've served on a jury in CA and have seen jury selection on a couple occasions. Based on what I've seen, I think it will remain highly unlikely that a convicted felon will make their way onto a jury of a criminal trial (civil trials might be more likely). In the standard questionnaire that prospective jurors are given, they are asked if they or members of their immediate family have been victims of a crime, or if the…
I think it's kind of random. Last time I was on jury selection, the defendant, a black man, was accused of robbing a bank at gunpoint. The woman being questioned for jury duty was asked about being a victim of crime. She said, "I've been a bank teller for over 20 years. I've been robbed at gunpoint three times, and every time it was a black man. Black men are always guilty". I was shocked she would say such a thing,…
Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's kind of random. Last time I was on jury selection, the defendant, a black man, was accused of robbing a bank at gunpoint. The woman being questioned for jury duty was asked about being a victim of crime. She said, "I've been a bank teller for over 20 years. I've been robbed at gunpoint three times, and every time it was a black man. Black men are always guilty". I was shocked she would say such a thing,…
Was he guilty?
Re: California is about to allow former felons to serve on juries
#30Why is anyone ever barred from jury duty outside of severe disability? Voir dire seems to exist to mitigate any conceivable juror issues.
The Magna Carta, which secured the right to a jury trial, only concerned the rights of the landed gentry. The jury trial was about the landed class having the right to deliberate on the disputes of its own members. It was copied from the system used for matters pertaining to Church lands and clerical crimes; matters that were required to be settled by other clergy through a parallel court system administered by the Church, whose rights and powers were derived from papal authority.
This notion isn't entirely antiquated today. Some scholars argue that one of the reasons the American criminal justice system has become so harsh on minorities is because juries are usually composed of members who live in separate communities from the accused. Their interests are in tamping down on crime, with little incentive to consider the disruption caused by wrenching away men and women from the labor pool and their families. According to this perspective, we should maybe return to a system where jury pools are called from much smaller geographical districts--literally the neighborhood where the crime occurred.
When share cropping was still a thing in the South, before penal labor became a state enterprise, and even during slavery, juries were often quite lenient toward the working class, including blacks. (Conviction rates were much closer to parity between white and black defendants!) Jury members knew that the accused likely worked for someone else in the community, and owed debts to others; unnecessary punishment[1] of the accused indirectly punished jury members' friends and families. Things worked similarly at the turn of the 19th century in major cities, when ethnic communities were compact and courts weren't centralized downtown. Jail time meant leaving a wife and kids without needed income, creating an immediate burden on the community (e.g. more expenditures from the neighborhood church's coffers).
If juries were again composed of members from the community directly impacted by a crime, then it might still make sense to penalize felons from serving. Juries would once again be more about the community policing itself, as opposed to today where we principally conceive of juries as impartial and fair (in the roulette sense) adjudicators of guilt and gatekeepers of retributive justice. Fortunately, most crime is still local. "Black-on-black" is a catchphrase today, but crime is generally neighbor-on-neighbor everywhere.
[1] Of course, if you were black then "unnecessary" would need to take into account the need to sow fear in the black community. But so long as slavery and share cropping kept blacks tied to the plantations and farms, that was far less common than in later years when they became more mobile.