Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

bicycledutch.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 49 posts

Re: New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

#21

Post by Isinlor »

anonymou2 wrote: post #15
rahkiin wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes cars deserve a big piece of asphalt but cyclers not? We have a lot of cyclers in the Netherlands and they deserve the safety and convenience of separate roads, away from multi-ton vehicles. Also, bike roads are not as overly constructed like car roads (maybe just 1 or 2 layers of asphalt instead of more)

The problem segregating bicycles is that that automatically means that they are excluded from the best infrastructure which are the regular roads, which by the way do not belong to cars. I suffer that discrimination everyday when I ride my bike and there is a bike path adjacent to the road in places where I had no problem before, and that's after many years of riding so I can tell you that it is completely safe to sh…

Unless you ban cars completely from streets, no matter how good the asphalt is I would not want to be around cars. I actively avoid cars if I have an option to go longer path, but with less car nearby me. I have no driving license, but I'm sure that as a car driver I would also prefer to see cyclists away from me.

I don't see how someone would want to go on main street if you have an option to drive on a separate road.

Re: New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

#23

Post by gpvos »

anonymou2 wrote: post #18
Sharlin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that the Netherlands is famous for being probably the most bike-friendly country in the world? Everybody cycles, and cyclists are definitely not seen as inferior to vehicle traffic.

There were bicycles in the Netherlands before they were segregated, a lot of them. Then they were kicked off the roads to let "progress" (i.e. the car) go unimpeded. Now yeah, they sell that as bike-friendly, so sad.

You're clearly not up to date with the situation on the ground here. We're upgrading our cycle infrastructure and removing cars from city centres at the same time. Where there's no space for segregated infrastructure or in rural areas where it would not be economical, speed reductions are generally applied: 30 km/h in built-up areas, 60 km/h outside.

As for the why: car and bicycle speeds are just too different. Segregation improves life for both, and especially safety for cyclists, who will always be at a physical disadvantage in an accident.

Re: New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

#24

Post by wila »

contravariant wrote: post #7
pintxo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is even better by letting the cars do the vertical movement, while the bikes stay on flat ground.

Possibly but images like this an be misleading. As the article on the floating roundabout points out it's not all that high above ground, the junction itself is below ground level. The cars are in fact doing most of the vertical movement. The floating roundabout does have the disadvantage that you need a bigger height difference to allow the cars to pass below it.

I know both the "Berekuil" as well as the "cycle roundabout" as they are both down here in Eindhoven.

The Berekuil is nice, but very confusing as to what direction to go as you no longer can see the roads once you are down in there.

The floating cycle roundabout OTOH is fantastic as you keep having a great overview. It really is a marvel of engineering.

The slope is not a problem on either of them for the average bicyclist in the Netherlands.

edit: Just noticed that the referenced Berekuil above is another one in Utrecht. I meant this one [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berenkuil,_Eindhoven

Re: New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

#25

Post by anonymou2 »

gpvos wrote: post #23
anonymou2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were bicycles in the Netherlands before they were segregated, a lot of them. Then they were kicked off the roads to let "progress" (i.e. the car) go unimpeded. Now yeah, they sell that as bike-friendly, so sad.

You're clearly not up to date with the situation on the ground here. We're upgrading our cycle infrastructure and removing cars from city centres at the same time. Where there's no space for segregated infrastructure or in rural areas where it would not be economical, speed reductions are generally applied: 30 km/h in built-up areas, 60 km/h outside. As for the why: car and bicycle speeds are just too different. Segr…

There is one basic rule of traffic engineering: first come first served. It allows for vehicles of different speeds to share the road. Your responsibility as a driver of a vehicle is to not drive so fast that you can not possibly stop within your field of view (you are not driving a train), that is enough to share the road with bicycles, tractors, horses or whatever. Of course drivers of cars do not want to be bothered with that an want the road all for themselves, that's why you still insist in getting cyclists off the roads, at least where there is enough space to do so. The fear of cars is very convenient for this purpose.

Re: New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

#26

Post by adrianN »

anonymou2 wrote: post #10

That's just insane, building two sets of parallel road systems, it's probably the most inefficient engineering ever, are you also going to build a new set when a new type of vehicle comes along? what about a scooter only road? And all of this because of the irrational believe that cyclists are inferior and can not share the road with motorists. I am so glad I don't live in Denmark.

You are right, highways really were a mistake. Who builds roads that can't even be used by cyclists, or wait, you probably mean roads right, I mean who wastes asphalt for surfaces that can't even be used by pedestrians?

Re: New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

#28

Post by anonymou2 »

Isinlor wrote: post #21
anonymou2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem segregating bicycles is that that automatically means that they are excluded from the best infrastructure which are the regular roads, which by the way do not belong to cars. I suffer that discrimination everyday when I ride my bike and there is a bike path adjacent to the road in places where I had no problem before, and that's after many years of riding so I can tell you that it is completely safe to sh…

Unless you ban cars completely from streets, no matter how good the asphalt is I would not want to be around cars. I actively avoid cars if I have an option to go longer path, but with less car nearby me. I have no driving license, but I'm sure that as a car driver I would also prefer to see cyclists away from me. I don't see how someone would want to go on main street if you have an option to drive on a separate roa…

Whenever I wanted to go to a place by bike I used to go into google maps then clicked on the "avoid freeways" option and I would take that route. Nowadays where I live I have to not only avoid freeways but streets or roads with bike paths, it is really awful. I've been riding my bike to work every day for the last 13 years and I realize that If I want to keep using the road safely and correctly I am going to have to buy a car or a motorcycle.

Re: New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

#29

Post by anonymou2 »

gpvos wrote: post #23
anonymou2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were bicycles in the Netherlands before they were segregated, a lot of them. Then they were kicked off the roads to let "progress" (i.e. the car) go unimpeded. Now yeah, they sell that as bike-friendly, so sad.

You're clearly not up to date with the situation on the ground here. We're upgrading our cycle infrastructure and removing cars from city centres at the same time. Where there's no space for segregated infrastructure or in rural areas where it would not be economical, speed reductions are generally applied: 30 km/h in built-up areas, 60 km/h outside. As for the why: car and bicycle speeds are just too different. Segr…

Also the speed is not so different. The speed difference is even greater between bicycles and pedestrians yet you see places where they mix them. As a pedestrian I have been passed by cyclists which disappear much faster than a car when a car passes me as a cyclist.

Re: New Floating Cycle Roundabout (2012)

#30

Post by dsfyu404ed »

scarejunba wrote: post #2

Damn, these guys must have some good engineers / PMs to finish that in 6.5 million euros. Doubt a version here could be done for that or even just stand up when it's done considering the novel design.

>Damn, these guys must have some good engineers / PMs to finish that in 6.5 million euros.

Or just normal engineers/managers working within a system that doesn't bleed money to "not quite technically corruption" at every step.

Post reply on HN