The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790 • Hacker News Board

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#21

Post by sieabahlpark » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:25 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #9

nobodyandproud wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a market-based problem rather than a policy problem: The problem is the low cost of making calls. Make calls cost money and the problem will naturally go away.

I think the problem is that it's possible to spoof called ID. The fraud starts before you answer the phone. Caller ID used to be an extra charge. The telcos needed it not to be mandatory. But now my land line is going away because it's become nothing but an annoyance. They could have prevented that but... but...

They would prefer not having to maintain their infrastructure as a utility for landlines. They would much prefer you just kept using your wireless phone where the margins are much higher.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#22

Post by nobodyandproud » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:28 PM UTC

alyandon wrote: post #16

nobodyandproud wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a market-based problem rather than a policy problem: The problem is the low cost of making calls. Make calls cost money and the problem will naturally go away.

Telcos are not incentivized to do much about this problem because they get paid by the scammers to complete their calls. As long as telcos continue to make money from these fraudulent calls, the problem will continue to exist. I'm not even sure that raising the floor cost of making calls would help because scammers only have to swindle a single person out of thousands of dollars to offset the costs. :(

Maybe. It would be interesting to know the average dollar raked in per call.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#23

Post by Aloha » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:29 PM UTC

chooseaname wrote: post #13

Stop allowing spoofed numbers. Period. I'm sorry BigCorp, but this is a public nuisance and trumps your "need" for a single phone number.

As someone with a heavy background, it would break a fair bit of the PSTN - while moves are in place to change the technical limitations of the PSTN that prevent this kind of verification, they're not complete yet, and will take several more years to implement fully.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#24

Post by jklein11 » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

Aloha wrote: post #23

chooseaname wrote: post #13

Stop allowing spoofed numbers. Period. I'm sorry BigCorp, but this is a public nuisance and trumps your "need" for a single phone number.

As someone with a heavy background, it would break a fair bit of the PSTN - while moves are in place to change the technical limitations of the PSTN that prevent this kind of verification, they're not complete yet, and will take several more years to implement fully.

Any chance you can explain what the PSTN is and why it is important? I tried reading the wikipedia article[1] but I still feel like I don't have enough telecom domain knowledge to understand it.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_switched_telephone_netw...

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#25

Post by vkou » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

nobodyandproud wrote: post #20

vkou wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is a problem where the necessary resources used to punish white collar crime are not being allocated. If there was a known Florida-based drug dealer that was bringing in $120,000,000 of drugs/year, there'd be dozens of cops working around the clock to bring him in. A Florida-based robo-caller, fined $120,000,000, who isn't paying a penny? Nobody cares. I understand lack of enforcement against some robocall f…

If you read the article, you’ll see that often the ones running these scams can’t pay the full amount. You don’t need a lot of money to spam calls. It wasn’t always this way, and getting random BS calls almost never happened back then.

That's fine. We have a solution for people who don't have the full amount of a fine.

We take every penny that they do have.

Since the guy hasn't paid a cent, and is not living under a bridge, panhandling with a "Homeless veteran, please give me money for food" sign, I'm pretty sure that this is a problem with enforcement.

> You don’t need a lot of money to spam calls.

No, but you do get a lot of money from the people buying ad time from you.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#26

Post by nobodyandproud » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

nobodyandproud wrote: post #3

brenden2 wrote: post #2

Honestly I'm surprised they've managed to collect that much. Good job guys.

This is a market-based problem rather than a policy problem: The problem is the low cost of making calls. Make calls cost money and the problem will naturally go away.

Already three down-votes, but not a single explanation or repudiation as to why this particular problem isn’t solved more easily by markets.

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#27

Post by tamalpais » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

I enabled the Silence Unknown Callers feature [0] in iOS and haven’t answered a spam call since. The downside is that it sends every call from unknown numbers to voicemail, including legitimate ones. It’s a worthwhile trade-off.

[0] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207099

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#28

Post by smittywerben » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

sg47 wrote: post #10

Can we try robocalling them to collect the remaining?

Makes me wonder how long distance rates are charged in the first place. A little OT but did we used to call websites?

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#29

Post by Aloha » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:34 PM UTC

nobodyandproud wrote: post #22

alyandon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telcos are not incentivized to do much about this problem because they get paid by the scammers to complete their calls. As long as telcos continue to make money from these fraudulent calls, the problem will continue to exist. I'm not even sure that raising the floor cost of making calls would help because scammers only have to swindle a single person out of thousands of dollars to offset the costs. :(

Maybe. It would be interesting to know the average dollar raked in per call.

It depends on rate center - remember those free conference services - they often used rate centers which were rural so they had a higher termination charge, which meant that the service was profitable.

While I'm having trouble finding hard rates - with the big carriers, I know its not a ton of money now in any case - low enough that I dont think the financial incentive is a relevant course of action, it just subsidizes the trunking infrastructure needed to support the calls.

See Call Pumping: https://www.fcc.gov/general/traffic-pumping

Re: The FCC Has Fined Robocallers $208M, Collected $6,790

#30

Post by shadowgovt » Sat, Nov 09, 2019, 6:35 PM UTC

The next step is to fine telephone exchanges for allowing robocallers.