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Software Updates

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Re: Software Updates

#21

Post by matheusmoreira »

arghwhat wrote: post #19
mehrdadn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stable ABI for drivers will result in the Windows situation: hardware vendors will just release one driver for one Windows version and one processor architecture. Uh, I dare say Windows hardware + driver compatibility is pretty damn good, so this doesn't really resonate with me... at all. Has not being able to install Windows XP on a modern machine left you bitter...? Or have I been living in a bubble?

Windows hardware + driver compatibility is a nightmare fueled by proprietary duct-taped one-off drivers supporting only one or two devices each. One of the reasons for this is that you can get away with anything on Windows, because everything is proprietary. There are headsets targeting Windows users that require kernel-mode drivers to work. Which, of course, is super fragile and will break at some point, rendering y…

> There are headsets targeting Windows users that require kernel-mode drivers to work.

That's horrifying. What headsets are these? Gaming headsets? I wouldn't trust that industry with kernel mode access to my compurer.

Re: Software Updates

#22

Post by Crinus »

mehrdadn wrote: post #12
matheusmoreira wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume that the majority of Linux kernels are running on Android phones and due to this lack of stable ABI for drivers these kernels are all outdated or even unmaintained. No, it's because the hardware manufacturers won't upstream their drivers. All they have to do is send the code licensed under GPLv2 and it will be updated and maintained. Stable ABI for drivers will result in the Windows situation: hardware ven…

> Stable ABI for drivers will result in the Windows situation: hardware vendors will just release one driver for one Windows version and one processor architecture. Uh, I dare say Windows hardware + driver compatibility is pretty damn good, so this doesn't really resonate with me... at all. Has not being able to install Windows XP on a modern machine left you bitter...? Or have I been living in a bubble?

> Has not being able to install Windows XP on a modern machine left you bitter...?

Yes. The topic at hand is how newer software can screw things after all, which causes people to want to stick to older versions. The same applies with Windows 7 BTW - or whatever your favorite Windows version is.

But it also goes in the other way: being bitter that i am not able to install drivers on Windows 10 for older hardware that should otherwise work.

Re: Software Updates

#23

Post by Crinus »

greggman2 wrote: post #6
Jyaif wrote: post #2

Ultimately, the problem is that we are not good at creating stable APIs. If we did have stable APIs, then once something (a feature, or even entire software) is written agains this stable API it would be available forever. This is IMO one of the greatest challenge the software engineering field needs to solve.

Many APIs are poorly designed and by design easy to use in insecure and inefficient ways. APIs also can't anticipate the future. APIs need to have a way to be deprecated and eventually discontinued.

...and cause applications using them to stop working.

Re: Software Updates

#24

Post by rjsw »

s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

Your point on phones is the odd one out for me, my fairly new $20 Nokia/HMD phone has really good audio even when making international calls.

Re: Software Updates

#25

Post by s9w »

rjsw wrote: post #24
s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

Your point on phones is the odd one out for me, my fairly new $20 Nokia/HMD phone has really good audio even when making international calls.

Maybe it's a regional thing. I'm German and things are often shittier versions here than anywhere else. I haven't had a phone conversation that felt like a latency under .5 seconds in 5+ years.

Re: Software Updates

#26

Post by avip »

s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

- windows 10 has no built-in media player that can handle a DVD.

- Android Studio... don't get me started.

Re: Software Updates

#28

Post by rjsw »

s9w wrote: post #25
rjsw wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point on phones is the odd one out for me, my fairly new $20 Nokia/HMD phone has really good audio even when making international calls.

Maybe it's a regional thing. I'm German and things are often shittier versions here than anywhere else. I haven't had a phone conversation that felt like a latency under .5 seconds in 5+ years.

I have made calls between France and the UK and not noticed a problem.

Re: Software Updates

#29

Post by rgrau »

The two oldest pieces of software I currently use (Emacs and Postgres) manage changes pretty well and somehow, they now scale at a ratio of features, speed, and size that's pretty decent.

They probably evolve slower than newer younger players because of their stability (and baggage).

I'd be interested in knowing what they do right.

Re: Software Updates

#30

Post by rgrau »

s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

Like the old Moore's Law of "don't do anything, your software will run faster in 1 year time", we could nearly apply this to software itself "don't touch anything and, by comparison, in 1 year time it will be awesomer than it is now".
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