Live data from Hacker News

Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

piper.com

21–30 of 237 posts

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#21
post #10

Garmin Autoland is emergency only autoland. Not to be confused with CAT II/III autoland used in normal operations.

For anyone else wondering what "emergency only autoland" means:

From Wikipedia: "The feature is activated by a guarded red button on Garmin G3000 NX avionics, evaluating winds, weather and fuel reserves to select a suitable diversion airport and taking over the aircraft controls to land, it advises the ATC and displays instructions to occupants."

From the Garmin marketing site [1]: "Garmin Autoland. It takes complete control of the flight to land the airplane in an emergency where the pilot is unable to fly1."

I'm not exactly sure if this is the correct reference for CAT II/III autoland, but seems like the purpose of CAT II/III autoland is to land and aircraft when the pilot would otherwise have a hard time manually landing due to weather conditions (ie. limited visibility) [2]. But if someone has a more accurate description, please correct me!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland#Emergency_autoland

[1] https://www.garmin.com/en-US/autonomi/

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system#ILS_...

Edit: Just to clarify the reason for posting this versus just relying on the text in the press release, I was under the impression the announcement was for some fully-automated flight control system (ie. take off and landing without a pilot on board, a la self-driving cars) based on the press release not mentioning why the system would be activated.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#22
The tech is still interesting, even if similar things that are used even in non-emergency scenarios have existed in large jets for a few decades. The one thing I don't understand is if it always just relies on WAAS and GPS no matter what, or, if depending on the runway it chooses to land, it may use something like an ILS.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#23
post #2

>digital technology that safely lands the aircraft at the nearest suitable airport in the event that the pilot is incapacitated. How does it know? Also a weird submission to be at the top of HN

Lack of input.

Whether it's a train, a boat or in this case an aeroplane, an aware and capable operator will periodically fiddle with things a little bit, change the heading slightly, tweak engine power a bit, any little change shows you're paying attention still, no need for the machine to intervene. If that doesn't happen for a sustained period, the machine prods them. "Hey are you awake? Let me know you're OK" or moral equivalent. If they still do nothing after a further period, engage emergency systems. On a boat that means summoning the rest of the crew to come see what's wrong on the bridge, on a train it means you just bring the train to a halt and let a remote signaller communicate with anybody else on board, on a plane this system proposes to try landing.

Also a passenger can just (be taught how to) activate it.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#24
This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when:

    There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway
    The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard
    There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach"
    There is a 40-knot crosswind
    You have an engine out
That's just a few, I'm a commercial pilot and software engineer, and I find this insanely impressive.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#25
post #21
post #10

Garmin Autoland is emergency only autoland. Not to be confused with CAT II/III autoland used in normal operations.

For anyone else wondering what "emergency only autoland" means: From Wikipedia: "The feature is activated by a guarded red button on Garmin G3000 NX avionics, evaluating winds, weather and fuel reserves to select a suitable diversion airport and taking over the aircraft controls to land, it advises the ATC and displays instructions to occupants." From the Garmin marketing site [1]: "Garmin Autoland. It takes complete…

CAT II/III can land with limited visibility.

CAT IIIc is interesting because there is no decision height and no runway visual range limitation. Pilots can approach and land completely blind without flying with the stick at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gthcuZV8agI

Big airports with CAT IIIc can stay open for CAT IIIc available aircraft in all visibility conditions.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#26

This is a seriously impressive bit of software engineering. It seems as simple as "push a button" to the layman but what happens when: There is a thunderstorm between the airport and the runway The nearest runway is closed due to a blizzard There is a mountain between the normal 3-degree glide-slope and the runway, an "offset approach" There is a 40-knot crosswind You have an engine out That's just a few, I'm a comme…

It will be insanely impressive if it actually performs well in those scenarios :)

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#27
post #21
post #10

Garmin Autoland is emergency only autoland. Not to be confused with CAT II/III autoland used in normal operations.

For anyone else wondering what "emergency only autoland" means: From Wikipedia: "The feature is activated by a guarded red button on Garmin G3000 NX avionics, evaluating winds, weather and fuel reserves to select a suitable diversion airport and taking over the aircraft controls to land, it advises the ATC and displays instructions to occupants." From the Garmin marketing site [1]: "Garmin Autoland. It takes complete…

Cat II/III use ILS which send out signals on the runway(s) in question. IIRC, those signals need to be monitored to make sure they're with-in certain tolerances because II/III is used in minimal visibility conditions, so there's very little time to correct things at the last minute. It's about trusting a whole bunch of equipment to work properly because you're basically flying with a blind fold on otherwise.

This Garmin G3000-based system primary uses GPS/WAAS (and perhaps VORs) to get location data, so accuracy may not be with-in necessary tolerances for day-to-day use, but it's better than nothing for emergencies.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#28
post #25
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For anyone else wondering what "emergency only autoland" means: From Wikipedia: "The feature is activated by a guarded red button on Garmin G3000 NX avionics, evaluating winds, weather and fuel reserves to select a suitable diversion airport and taking over the aircraft controls to land, it advises the ATC and displays instructions to occupants." From the Garmin marketing site [1]: "Garmin Autoland. It takes complete…

CAT II/III can land with limited visibility. CAT IIIc is interesting because there is no decision height and no runway visual range limitation. Pilots can approach and land completely blind without flying with the stick at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gthcuZV8agI Big airports with CAT IIIc can stay open for CAT IIIc available aircraft in all visibility conditions.

And then you have to taxi in that pea soup. :)

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#29
post #8

Not to be a philistine about new technology: but somehow I think this would make people in the air and in the ground less safe. It's probably like having a parachute on the plane: just a great marketing sales point.

It’s intended for small aircraft where the pilot might be incapacitated or something. Imagine someone having a heart attack mid flight with their kid onboard or something.

Re: Piper Announces First GA Aircraft with Autoland Capability

#30
post #8

Not to be a philistine about new technology: but somehow I think this would make people in the air and in the ground less safe. It's probably like having a parachute on the plane: just a great marketing sales point.

For parachutes it was only true until Cirrus put out training to encourage people to actually use the parachute.

Once pilots were properly trained, the parachutes started saving lives. It was the same story when ejector seats were introduced.

The emergency autoland is not intended to be used by the pilot, it is for activation by a passenger in single pilot aircraft when the pilot is incapacitated. So their is almost nothing to train. Pilots just need to add it to the passenger briefing.

Post reply on HN