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Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

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Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#21

Post by goatinaboat »

r_singh wrote: post #15

I can't help but notice the bias people from the west tend to have against Indian outsourcing companies. They have issues and downsides, sure. Major long term downsides, as an Indian programmer (not working for any of these companies), I agree (just like outsourcing to ANY company, be it American e.g. Cognizant). Comments talking about Infosys/TCS, not being a brand: programmers are not Infosys' customers, in fact it…

It’s not bias, it’s experience.

TCS is a strategic partner for projects like the British Rail Network.

That project is a disaster of overblown budgets and under delivery. Like everything these companies touch. But the imaginary savings earned a few Western managers big bonuses before they quickly moved on before the chickens came home to roost.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#22

Post by r_singh »

primax wrote: post #19
r_singh wrote: post #15

I can't help but notice the bias people from the west tend to have against Indian outsourcing companies. They have issues and downsides, sure. Major long term downsides, as an Indian programmer (not working for any of these companies), I agree (just like outsourcing to ANY company, be it American e.g. Cognizant). Comments talking about Infosys/TCS, not being a brand: programmers are not Infosys' customers, in fact it…

I would agree if Wipro, Infosys, Tata, Cognizant and HCL were in the business of offering up skilled people that they have promised to clients. But every single one of my clients who engages these companies has a story where they were sold X cloud or devops or security people and the people put on their engagements had 0 experience. I've moved into a consulting company that has an offshore branch and it's the same th…

There's probably barely any big consulting firm or bank that does not have offshore mega offices (in India) where a lot of important work happens in equities, commodities, etc. Citibank, BOA, PWC, you name it. All employ tens of thousands of people in India.

Even tech cos. like Amazon are hiring their next wave of knowledge workers offshore.

It's not like the offshore heads can force anyone to do so, or the Indian government is providing huge incentives (like for manufacturing in china). It's because the decision makers believe doing so is the right thing. If it's anyones fault, it's the heads of these organisations that are to blame, for prioritising perceived cost savings over what their own workforce thinks or does.

Having a great sales pitch and not being able to deliver is not a fraud. It's something that companies trying to bite more than they can chew often result in.

Also, I agree that having to teach your offshore counterpart how to do their job is absolutely ridiculous. It makes me wonder, how selfish can these corporates be, that they prioritise their profit or share price or bonus, over their own workforce.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#23

Post by tonyedgecombe »

primax wrote: post #19
r_singh wrote: post #15

I can't help but notice the bias people from the west tend to have against Indian outsourcing companies. They have issues and downsides, sure. Major long term downsides, as an Indian programmer (not working for any of these companies), I agree (just like outsourcing to ANY company, be it American e.g. Cognizant). Comments talking about Infosys/TCS, not being a brand: programmers are not Infosys' customers, in fact it…

I would agree if Wipro, Infosys, Tata, Cognizant and HCL were in the business of offering up skilled people that they have promised to clients. But every single one of my clients who engages these companies has a story where they were sold X cloud or devops or security people and the people put on their engagements had 0 experience. I've moved into a consulting company that has an offshore branch and it's the same th…

That's a common problem across all big consulting companies, it's not specific to India.

I think the real problem is that many of these corporates haven't realised how important IT is to their business. The idea that a bank should outsource development is ridiculous, most of their interaction with customers is going to be through these systems. If they want to differentiate themselves from their competitors then they need strong IT.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#24

Post by r_singh »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #23
primax wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree if Wipro, Infosys, Tata, Cognizant and HCL were in the business of offering up skilled people that they have promised to clients. But every single one of my clients who engages these companies has a story where they were sold X cloud or devops or security people and the people put on their engagements had 0 experience. I've moved into a consulting company that has an offshore branch and it's the same th…

That's a common problem across all big consulting companies, it's not specific to India. I think the real problem is that many of these corporates haven't realised how important IT is to their business. The idea that a bank should outsource development is ridiculous, most of their interaction with customers is going to be through these systems. If they want to differentiate themselves from their competitors then they…

> The idea that a bank should outsource development is ridiculous, most of their interaction with customers is going to be through these systems. If they want to differentiate themselves from their competitors then they need strong IT.

I agree with this too. However, this arises 2 doubts in my head:

1. Is Apple outsourcing manufacturing to Foxconn any different from banks outsourcing their IT?[1]

2. Is hiring offshore talent the same as outsourcing? Can the talent still not be in-house and the company be a multinational?

[1] Yes, it is because a lot of times firms outsource their entire IT/System design to these outsourcing firms too. And this is because of lack of knowledge from the manager's part, laziness or just greed. But it is still comparable because they both have certain shared downsides in the long run.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#25

Post by purplex »

primax wrote: post #19
r_singh wrote: post #15

I can't help but notice the bias people from the west tend to have against Indian outsourcing companies. They have issues and downsides, sure. Major long term downsides, as an Indian programmer (not working for any of these companies), I agree (just like outsourcing to ANY company, be it American e.g. Cognizant). Comments talking about Infosys/TCS, not being a brand: programmers are not Infosys' customers, in fact it…

I would agree if Wipro, Infosys, Tata, Cognizant and HCL were in the business of offering up skilled people that they have promised to clients. But every single one of my clients who engages these companies has a story where they were sold X cloud or devops or security people and the people put on their engagements had 0 experience. I've moved into a consulting company that has an offshore branch and it's the same th…

I have worked for two of the Big 4 consulting firms, in security domain. They have the same story - they promise client to provide resources on subject A and B, ask the ones who have less project to learn subject A and B (these resources are expert in subject X and Y, but since the client wants A and B - they are asked to learn that in a day or two. I have seen many colleagues going to the client location, searching on Google "how to do A" in the morning and then provide some PPT with basic information.

Currently working for an American software dev company.

What I mean to say is, the issue you mentioned is not limited to these 5-6 companies, but for the whole IT industry.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#28

Post by r_singh »

goatinaboat wrote: post #21
r_singh wrote: post #15

I can't help but notice the bias people from the west tend to have against Indian outsourcing companies. They have issues and downsides, sure. Major long term downsides, as an Indian programmer (not working for any of these companies), I agree (just like outsourcing to ANY company, be it American e.g. Cognizant). Comments talking about Infosys/TCS, not being a brand: programmers are not Infosys' customers, in fact it…

It’s not bias, it’s experience. TCS is a strategic partner for projects like the British Rail Network. That project is a disaster of overblown budgets and under delivery. Like everything these companies touch. But the imaginary savings earned a few Western managers big bonuses before they quickly moved on before the chickens came home to roost.

In that case, TCS will pay a price for it in the long run.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#29

Post by primax »

purplex wrote: post #25
primax wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would agree if Wipro, Infosys, Tata, Cognizant and HCL were in the business of offering up skilled people that they have promised to clients. But every single one of my clients who engages these companies has a story where they were sold X cloud or devops or security people and the people put on their engagements had 0 experience. I've moved into a consulting company that has an offshore branch and it's the same th…

I have worked for two of the Big 4 consulting firms, in security domain. They have the same story - they promise client to provide resources on subject A and B, ask the ones who have less project to learn subject A and B (these resources are expert in subject X and Y, but since the client wants A and B - they are asked to learn that in a day or two. I have seen many colleagues going to the client location, searching…

No direct experience in a given tech is ok sometimes, if they have transferrable experience (i.e. ansible to chef, cloudformation to terraform et al).

Having no experience on any cloud platform and being sold as an expert however is a different story.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#30

Post by pnako »

campfireveteran wrote: post #7

Infosys and TCS remind me of Uber and Lyft: business models based on magical thinking-rooted exploitation. Engineers need to form their own worker-owned consultancy co-ops and eschew corporations to capture more of the wealth they generate for themselves rather than as underpaid servants of said large corporations.

Easier said than done, though. The problem is that potential clients aren't able to assess quality easily.

That system works for lawyers and doctors because there are bars and boards to not only vet theit credentials, but also restrict supply through quotas.

One solution might be for that coop to sell service around a valuable piece of software they own (or at least have demonstrable expertise with). Thats how the SQLite developers work, for example.

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