Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#21

Post by malvosenior » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #17

cobweb2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you not beginning to struggle with the contradictions of your political ideas? You want a central authority to ban the spread of "blatantly false" ideas that you fear may cause plebians to vote the wrong way, yet you support affording plebians with the full right to vote? Would it not be simpler to bans plebians from voting, and therefore remove your worry entirely that they may vote the wrong way when hearing "b…

We are being attacked with foreign propaganda by our long-term enemies. They are succeeding in destroying our position on the world stage. It's not something that can be turned a blind eye to under the guise of free speech (which it isn't).

All governments push propaganda. Russia's miniscule ad spend on FB had no measurable effect (please provide proof if you think this is wrong).

Clinton and Trump spent many order of magnitude more on political advertising than any foreign nation and even that didn't assure their win. People aren't mindless robots, they vote for who they want to vote for.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#22

Post by wayne_skylar » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

Oh I think he does get it. Facebook is a tool uniquely designed to influence behavior. Before you had to advertise to a generic stereotype of a person whereas now -- thanks to facebook's treasure trove of user data -- you can target just the perfect audience to get your ideas spreading organically.

Facebook sells the ability to do this to anybody who will pay. This is the core of how they make money. After a period of pretending to search for a solution, Zuckerberg has finally ducked behind the notion of 'free speech' as his excuse for doing nothing. He knows that the only way to stop it would be to stop selling this ability to influence. And he's actually right that it shouldn't be him deciding what are the good and bad uses of this powerful tool.

The blind faith that increased connectivity is a net benefit is what got us here. Seeing how social media is actually increasing depression makes me think the opposite. The sad truth is that most people are too vulnerable to misinformation and the older centralized distribution of information is probably the best for stability.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#23

Post by burtonator » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 4:53 PM UTC

wnmurphy wrote: post #4

Facebook was used in 2016 by the Kremlin for disinformation warfare with the express purpose of swaying the results of our presidential election. Facebook recently adopted an official policy that they will not remove political ads which are blatantly, demonstrably false. This policy was drafted by Katie Harbath, Facebook's Public Policy Director of Global Elections, who was previously Chief Digital Strategist for the…

We need to target the executives of Facebook directly. Run false political ads targeting their family and friends. I imagine they won't like it when it's done against them directly.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#24

Post by peterhadlaw » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 4:54 PM UTC

lordnacho wrote: post #9

cobweb2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you not beginning to struggle with the contradictions of your political ideas? You want a central authority to ban the spread of "blatantly false" ideas that you fear may cause plebians to vote the wrong way, yet you support affording plebians with the full right to vote? Would it not be simpler to bans plebians from voting, and therefore remove your worry entirely that they may vote the wrong way when hearing "b…

It doesn't have to be the same authority. You could have an independent ombudsman.

Factcheck.net.fact.org/really-real is not that. I don't get why people can just take their own responsibility for themselves? Give users the tools to filter out the nonsense that floods most of the internet. There's no need for moral arbiters to decide for us what's "true" and "false". We've existed long enough without them, I think we can make it a little longer still.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#25

Post by peterhadlaw » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #21

CydeWeys wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are being attacked with foreign propaganda by our long-term enemies. They are succeeding in destroying our position on the world stage. It's not something that can be turned a blind eye to under the guise of free speech (which it isn't).

All governments push propaganda. Russia's miniscule ad spend on FB had no measurable effect (please provide proof if you think this is wrong). Clinton and Trump spent many order of magnitude more on political advertising than any foreign nation and even that didn't assure their win. People aren't mindless robots, they vote for who they want to vote for.

The funniest thing is, no one talks about this, but if the "goal" was to sew discord... My goodness someone "in the Kremlin" should be getting a promotion for their exceptionally well done job. I mean how many YEARS and millions of dollars has the US wasted chasing after this ghost of Russian interference? If you want to calculate the ROI from a few thousand dollars to how much hysteria followed suit, it's insane. The only question I have is, can anyone seriously take credit for it in Russia with a straight face. "No comrade, I only made meme of Hillary... The whole Mueller thing was the US all on its own."

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#26

Post by jakelazaroff » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #19

wnmurphy wrote: post #4

Facebook was used in 2016 by the Kremlin for disinformation warfare with the express purpose of swaying the results of our presidential election. Facebook recently adopted an official policy that they will not remove political ads which are blatantly, demonstrably false. This policy was drafted by Katie Harbath, Facebook's Public Policy Director of Global Elections, who was previously Chief Digital Strategist for the…

> They are using it as an excuse to protect the spread of disinformation. I really don't think so. They want usage, period. They don't want to actively spread disinformation. They probably find that editorializing and censoring information annoys users. There's been no proof whatsoever that Russia had any impact via FB on the 2016 election. Most people know this and reject larger narratives that push centralized mani…

> There's been no proof whatsoever that Russia had any impact via FB on the 2016 election.

This is false. Facebook themselves announced that Russia spent $100,000 on ads aimed at U.S. voters. Posts from six Russian propaganda accounts were shared hundreds of millions of times. [1]

Effort doesn't equal impact, I suppose, but there's no way of proving the latter and the former is still extremely disturbing.

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/inside-facebook-mark-zuckerberg-...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#27

Post by willis936 » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #21

CydeWeys wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are being attacked with foreign propaganda by our long-term enemies. They are succeeding in destroying our position on the world stage. It's not something that can be turned a blind eye to under the guise of free speech (which it isn't).

All governments push propaganda. Russia's miniscule ad spend on FB had no measurable effect (please provide proof if you think this is wrong). Clinton and Trump spent many order of magnitude more on political advertising than any foreign nation and even that didn't assure their win. People aren't mindless robots, they vote for who they want to vote for.

That is a naively optimistic statement. If marketing didn’t work then billions wouldn’t be spent on it.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#28

Post by kapnobatairza » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 4:59 PM UTC

Zuckerberg has successfully shifted the discourse to a discussion about free speech, but I don't think that free speech is under attack here.

I don't care if Trump and pro-Trump supporters or organizations want to post lies on their own feed. But if Facebook is getting PAID for political ADVERTISING, that gives them a moral responsibility to regulate that content. If they want to abdicate that responsibility, then I think the government has an interest in preventing the corruption or the appearance of corruption in our elections, so reasonable restrictions/regulations on political advertising on social networks should be considered.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#29

Post by chrischen » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

If one wanted to make a news company that owned and ran both FOX News and MSNBC, it’d be Facebook.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg still doesn't get it

#30

Post by malvosenior » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:01 PM UTC

willis936 wrote: post #27

malvosenior wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All governments push propaganda. Russia's miniscule ad spend on FB had no measurable effect (please provide proof if you think this is wrong). Clinton and Trump spent many order of magnitude more on political advertising than any foreign nation and even that didn't assure their win. People aren't mindless robots, they vote for who they want to vote for.

That is a naively optimistic statement. If marketing didn’t work then billions wouldn’t be spent on it.

Yet it was Clinton who spent far more than anyone on marketing and Russia spent pretty much nothing. Only here we are talking about the impact "Russia" had and ignoring that the tens of millions Clinton spent didn't accomplish her goal.