5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach • Hacker News Board

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#21

Post by checker » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #13

monkeynotes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4G and often 3G don't work in many rural areas. I expect 5G will follow the trend and be concentrated in high population areas, at least to begin with. I think 5G will mostly be in cities, with antennas on buildings. Masts aren't really practical for the network density required. I imagine as you exit a city you'll have the older infrastructure.

Rural areas are getting 4g. 3g is common, and 2g is even being turned off in some places. 5g will start coming to rural areas soon as some of the options make it more suited to rural areas than 4g. In 10 years we will probably be talking about 6g...

We'll definitely be talking about 6G in 10 years because the carriers and device makers need something to sell [1]. At the end of the day it's just a label to get new tech developments into the market.

And history has shown that even if the 6G spec is unobtainable then in 10 years the carriers will water it down so they can claim "6G" capabilities [2,3]. I don't necessarily disagree with this because 10 years seems to be a good interval to introduce incremental improvements.

1. https://www.pcmag.com/article/360533/what-is-6g 2. https://www.howtogeek.com/399560/5g-e-isnt-real-5g.-heres-wh... 3. https://gizmodo.com/the-dirty-secret-of-todays-4g-its-not-4g...

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#22

Post by itcrowd » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

bkovacev wrote: post #14

As someone new to the 5G world I'm hearing a lot about health concerns. Can someone please explain to me the actual health concerns? My GF has been talking about it for a while now, but when I looked up health related studies of 5G on google scholar - I didn't get any meaningful hits. Is it a tin foil thing or are there really some concerns?

5G safety is a long story, but the tl;dr is that it's not something to worry about. I tried to explain this a while back in a long thread here on HN. I tried to cite many scientific articles with more details. Please refer to that if you'd like. Maybe I'll write a blog post some day.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20454375

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#23

Post by landcoctos » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

itcrowd wrote: post #22

bkovacev wrote: post #14

As someone new to the 5G world I'm hearing a lot about health concerns. Can someone please explain to me the actual health concerns? My GF has been talking about it for a while now, but when I looked up health related studies of 5G on google scholar - I didn't get any meaningful hits. Is it a tin foil thing or are there really some concerns?

5G safety is a long story, but the tl;dr is that it's not something to worry about. I tried to explain this a while back in a long thread here on HN. I tried to cite many scientific articles with more details. Please refer to that if you'd like. Maybe I'll write a blog post some day. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20454375

> for now

so worry when it's too late?

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#24

Post by bluGill » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:19 PM UTC

whage wrote: post #11

Can someone help me understand what is usually meant by "systems" as in "A systems approach"?

Systems as in looking at how the system fits together as a whole. This can often be as complex as the details of the individual parts. How do all the parts fit together.

Example: If you are assigned to build a road you figure out the pavement so it can support the trucks driving over it. If you are assigned the system of the roads you instead look at where the trucks are going: is the route the road is on a good one (including will it hit kids on the way to school, are there good stores, will it induce demand and make things worse...), but you assume the pavement engineers will make the road strong enough.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#25

Post by tboyd47 » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:21 PM UTC

bkovacev wrote: post #14

As someone new to the 5G world I'm hearing a lot about health concerns. Can someone please explain to me the actual health concerns? My GF has been talking about it for a while now, but when I looked up health related studies of 5G on google scholar - I didn't get any meaningful hits. Is it a tin foil thing or are there really some concerns?

Theoretically, 5G will use a higher frequency band of radiation (24Ghz-86Ghz). This band has a harder time penetrating obstacles, so you will need many more transmitters at a higher power level to cover an area.

Opponents are uncomfortable with the enthusiasm of the telecom companies over 5G without sufficient (they feel) long-term research on the health effects of saturating entire neighborhoods with millimeter-wave radiation 24/7. Residents of these areas will be exposed to this radiation whether they use it or not - there is no opt-out.

There is some quackery in this space (i.e. cures for "radiation sickness," etc.), but I don't consider it blameworthy to have caution concerning new technology in general, especially when the benefits of 5G to the consumer are so dubious. It seems to me like a push by the telecoms to re-implement wireless internet on their terms from the ground up in as many areas as they can before public opinion forces neutrality back on them again.

I also don't think they'll actually succeed (at least in America anyway), but mostly end up selling people the same product under the label "5G LTE" or something.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#26

Post by c4wrd » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

whage wrote: post #11

Can someone help me understand what is usually meant by "systems" as in "A systems approach"?

Systems Theory is the study of complex concepts in which those concepts are broken down into a comprehensive set of smaller, interconnected components that make it easier to understand the complexity and implement. Not the best example, but you can think of it as a blueprint of sorts.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#27

Post by markus92 » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

l0000p wrote: post #16

s_dev wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tin foil hat thing. It's just wireless frequencies -- which may have some minor impact but it wouldn't be any different to 4G or 3G really and you can see that tech came and hasn't caused any major health issues.

Unfortunately, a statement like that, has just as much value as the conspiracy theory. Since 5G is a vastly different technology, the only thing we can say for certain is that we don't know the health risks at this point.

Sounds like the same thing they said for 2g, 3g, 4g and Wifi. As long as I don't see a big epidemic of brain tumors or something related, I'll take these claims with a pinch of salt.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#28

Post by itcrowd » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

landcoctos wrote: post #23

itcrowd wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5G safety is a long story, but the tl;dr is that it's not something to worry about. I tried to explain this a while back in a long thread here on HN. I tried to cite many scientific articles with more details. Please refer to that if you'd like. Maybe I'll write a blog post some day. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20454375

> for now so worry when it's too late?

Ok, updated the phrasing to remove that part. I am not convinced there is anything to worry about for consumers. There may be some safety precautions that need to be taken for maintenance / installation of cell sites (in addition to the current safety measures).

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#29

Post by m12k » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:28 PM UTC

bkovacev wrote: post #14

As someone new to the 5G world I'm hearing a lot about health concerns. Can someone please explain to me the actual health concerns? My GF has been talking about it for a while now, but when I looked up health related studies of 5G on google scholar - I didn't get any meaningful hits. Is it a tin foil thing or are there really some concerns?

It looks to me like it's the newest battleground of the anti-vax movement. Thank god no kids need to die from it this time around.

Re: 5G Mobile Networks: A Systems Approach

#30

Post by monkeynotes » Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 1:30 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #13

monkeynotes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4G and often 3G don't work in many rural areas. I expect 5G will follow the trend and be concentrated in high population areas, at least to begin with. I think 5G will mostly be in cities, with antennas on buildings. Masts aren't really practical for the network density required. I imagine as you exit a city you'll have the older infrastructure.

Rural areas are getting 4g. 3g is common, and 2g is even being turned off in some places. 5g will start coming to rural areas soon as some of the options make it more suited to rural areas than 4g. In 10 years we will probably be talking about 6g...

Obviously you haven't been to rural Maine.