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Harold Bloom Has Died

nytimes.com

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Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#21

Post by jeffdavis »

0_gravitas wrote: post #11
jerf wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You shouldn't speak ill of the dead like this. It is uncouth and crass for all sorts of reasons. It doesn't mean you need to forget or ignore it, it just means... today is not the day. More days will come.

Not OP but I've never liked the notion of "too soon" as a reason for not doing/saying things, it feels very arbitrary. And I don't know much about the person of subject but I will speak ill of anyone living or dead if they are someone worth speaking ill of.

There are two separate issues: speaking ill of the dead at all; and speaking disrespectfully too soon after a death.

Speaking ill of the dead at all is generally not good because the person is no longer able to defend their reputation, and no remedy can be made. The dead is no longer in a position of power to be removed, nor can they improve themselves out of remorse. So of something ill is to be said, saying it after death is too late, not too soon.

"Too soon" is problematic because you are using a death as an opportunity to amplify your own message, and because it can amplify the grief of those left behind.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#22

Post by SomeOldThrow »

mellosouls wrote: post #18
dlivingston wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding Bloom's accuser, > In 2004, Wolf wrote an article for New York magazine accusing literary scholar Harold Bloom of a "sexual encroachment" more than two decades earlier by touching her thigh. She said that what she alleged Bloom did was not harassment, either legally or emotionally, and she did not think herself a "victim", but that she had harbored this secret for 21 years. [0] [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org…

Comment removed.

What does this have to do with the accusation? It has nothing to do with his being significant except through the window of his abusing his power.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#23

Post by mellosouls »

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #22
mellosouls wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comment removed.

What does this have to do with the accusation? It has nothing to do with his being significant except through the window of his abusing his power.

I think you have misread my comment.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#24

Post by TurkishPoptart »

Barrin92 wrote: post #17
jerf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not for the deceased; it is for the family of the deceased and others left behind. They are grieving and don't need to also have to deal with rumors adding to their pain. They didn't do it. It is also a simple application of the Golden Rule; you would not care for everyone around you to take your death as an opportunity to slag you, neither should you do it to you other fellow humans, all condemned to die one d…

>It is also a simple application of the Golden Rule; you would not care for everyone around you to take your death as an opportunity to slag you if I ever turn into someone who gets a reputation for molesting young college students drag me all you want, hell rent a billboard for all I care and chuck my remains into the trashcan. If I ever figured out that one of my family members engaged in behaviour like this I woul…

>if I ever turn into someone who gets a reputation for molesting young college students drag me all you want, hell rent a billboard for all I care and chuck my remains into the trashcan.

>If I ever figured out that one of my family members engaged in behaviour like this I would not mind it one single bit if their accusers spoke about it the day they died, the only thing I'd be sad about is that I didn't know sooner.

He touched a woman's thigh and then died.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#25

Post by p1necone »

jeffdavis wrote: post #21
0_gravitas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but I've never liked the notion of "too soon" as a reason for not doing/saying things, it feels very arbitrary. And I don't know much about the person of subject but I will speak ill of anyone living or dead if they are someone worth speaking ill of.

There are two separate issues: speaking ill of the dead at all; and speaking disrespectfully too soon after a death. Speaking ill of the dead at all is generally not good because the person is no longer able to defend their reputation, and no remedy can be made. The dead is no longer in a position of power to be removed, nor can they improve themselves out of remorse. So of something ill is to be said, saying it afte…

I don't know that I consider calling people out for shitty things they've done to be "disrespectful". Calling people out for shitty things they haven't done would be be disrespectful.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#26

Post by elliekelly »

mellosouls wrote: post #23
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with the accusation? It has nothing to do with his being significant except through the window of his abusing his power.

I think you have misread my comment.

Perhaps I've misread and/or misunderstood your comment as well. It seems you're suggesting that she's an unreliable witness and her accusations shouldn't be given much (or any) weight because her academic and professional work is of low quality.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#27

Post by SomeOldThrow »

mellosouls wrote: post #23
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does this have to do with the accusation? It has nothing to do with his being significant except through the window of his abusing his power.

I think you have misread my comment.

I don’t believe I have. What do claims of plagiarism have to do with claims of sexual harassment? Your post seems to defame the alleged victim.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#28

Post by SomeOldThrow »

jerf wrote: post #7
jchallis wrote: post #2

I used to tutor math and physics near Bloom's office in Timothy Dwight. My main association with the man is that he would come on strong to every female English graduate student he could reach. When #MeToo first came to national consciousness about men in arts and letters who completely abused their position to take advantage of women, I thought of Harold. How could these giants of arts and letters abuse so many? Bec…

You shouldn't speak ill of the dead like this. It is uncouth and crass for all sorts of reasons. It doesn't mean you need to forget or ignore it, it just means... today is not the day. More days will come.

FUCK Harold Bloom.

He had a salary if you don’t remember.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#29

Post by blacksqr »

jeffdavis wrote: post #13

The article confuses me. Bloom thought both that Shakespeare invented humanity, but also that literature was primarily about the aesthetic pleasure for the reader? I am not an expert in literature or criticism, but it seems like there's something missing from the article to explain that gap. (I'm sorry to hear of his passing, of course, and I don't mean this as disrespectful in any way.)

Bloom was of the opinion that Shakespeare invented the modern (as distinct from ancient or medieval) conception of conscious self-awareness and introspection as a new idea of what it means to be human and experience life.
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