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Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

whatever.scalzi.com

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Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#21

Post by Lewisham »

A mail system that doesn’t have a Bcc function doesn’t belong in the 21st Century.

This reminds me of a comment that we almost always get on HN when Facebook comes up, and its almost always right: it's not for you. If you want Bcc, it's not for you. The millions of people who are younger than you don't think to CC, let alone BCC. They want to communicate, and they want to do it now, and email is just that formal thing Dad uses. That's their terms, and Facebook gives it to them.

The author also discounts Facebook as being some sort of Neo-AOL. It is that, but where AOL faltered was being a completely walled garden. Facebook as a development platform, and, perhaps more importantly, an online identity to all sorts of other sites, makes Facebook use even more in-grained. I would love to see some stats from sites that allow Facebook Connect on how much their user registration went up. Facebook offers a portal, but also a wider identity, and they do it well.

If Facebook isn't for you, then that's that. But it doesn't mean what they're doing is wrong.

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#22

Post by mbreese »

MJR wrote: post #3

I wish I could sign on to the damn thing and not have the first thing I feel be exasperation at the aggressive dimness of it UI and its functionality. People use Facebook because they see past the "website" and read the content. They communicate with their friends and family. How many non-technical people have you ever heard complain about email apps? They don't because they use email to communicate, not to use an em…

> How many non-technical people have you ever heard complain about email apps

You should pick a better analogy. Every single non-technical person I know has complained about their email app. Usually it's some stupid Outlook/Exchange quirk...

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#23

Post by ramanujan »

patricklynch wrote: post #19
paul wrote: post #2

Clearly someone who "once handrolled his own html code and then uploaded it using UNIX commands" is simply too Awesome for Facebook.

Yes, that line came off as egotistical posturing. We got it. But I don't like that your snarky quip--which distorts the fact that the author continues to use facebook out of a sense of social obligation, and which I don't think adds much to the discussion--is the most upvoted comment here. Sure, you can be cynical and mock the guy, but I'd rather see you address his arguments. I'm not so much annoyed that you took th…

The reason this is the most important takeaway is that Scalzi is calling the people at Facebook "stupid", despite the fact that they are much smarter than him.

  "there’s very little Facebook does, either as   
  a technological platform or as a company, that doesn’t 
  remind me that “banal mediocrity” is apparently the 
  highest accolade  one can aspire to at that particular organization."
Scalzi has never heard of Hiphop, Thrift, or Haystack. He hasn't heard about them because he is not really capable of understanding the technical problems involved with doing something as hard as Facebook.

It is really hard to make something look this easy.

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#24

Post by ramanujan »

MJR wrote: post #3

I wish I could sign on to the damn thing and not have the first thing I feel be exasperation at the aggressive dimness of it UI and its functionality. People use Facebook because they see past the "website" and read the content. They communicate with their friends and family. How many non-technical people have you ever heard complain about email apps? They don't because they use email to communicate, not to use an em…

It is an amazing UI that lets you "see past the website".

I once saw one of those "Missing Manual" books for Facebook on the shelf and laughed. I wouldn't have laughed if it were for Blender or even for Word.

But then I realized: the reason I laughed is that Facebook is so simple to use that only an idiot couldn't figure it out. Nay, even many millions of idiots can figure it out.

For an application that complex, with that many features, that is quite an accolade indeed.

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#25

Post by evanreyn »

Facebook is not made for smart people. It's not made for the readers of Hacker News, this guy's blog, or even the throngs on Reddit. It's made for everyone else. I work in a place with some people who will work/have worked minimum wage jobs their whole life (not that there's anything wrong with that). But these same people are on the internet all the time, and you know what they do? Check facebook. Facebook chat. Look through facebook pictures. Maybe browse craigslist for a few minutes looking for a used car or a new job. But 95% of the time? Facebook. I'm not saying this type of person represents the majority of facebook users, but it is this type of internet "familiarity", for lack of a better word, that makes up the majority of facebook users, and the world's population.

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#26

Post by davidmathers »

Lewisham wrote: post #20
davidmathers wrote: post #14

Zuckerberg is in fact not a genius; he’s an ambitious nerd who was in the right place at the right time So the guy who created Orkut must have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. Too bad for him. His Google stock probably only made him a millionaire. Totally uncool.

The author thinks that it was just "PR and faffery", while discounting the actual value of PR and faffery. Never discount these things. MySpace was practically built on it.

Yes MySpace was created by marketing people, but that's the reason for both its initial rise and ultimate stagnation. Marketing people think "features" is the name of the game. Zuckerberg, like a good nerd, had the understanding that "platform" is really the name of the game.

Plus Zuckerberg's massive anti-privacy bias caused him to push the product in the right (superior product/market fit) direction in the face of significant user complaints (i.e. beacon).

And the speed at which facebook has been able to re-invent itself multiple times (e.g. platformization and twitterization) has been very impressive.

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#27

Post by quattrofan »

MJR wrote: post #3

I wish I could sign on to the damn thing and not have the first thing I feel be exasperation at the aggressive dimness of it UI and its functionality. People use Facebook because they see past the "website" and read the content. They communicate with their friends and family. How many non-technical people have you ever heard complain about email apps? They don't because they use email to communicate, not to use an em…

They "read the content" if you can call countless banal status updates "content" then yes. Facebook provides a useful way of sharing pictures, connecting with friends but most importantly for an ever larger number, a place to seek some sort of validation for the pointless minutia of their boring lives.

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#28

Post by trustfundbaby »

Lewisham wrote: post #21

A mail system that doesn’t have a Bcc function doesn’t belong in the 21st Century. This reminds me of a comment that we almost always get on HN when Facebook comes up, and its almost always right: it's not for you. If you want Bcc, it's not for you. The millions of people who are younger than you don't think to CC, let alone BCC. They want to communicate, and they want to do it now, and email is just that formal thin…

> If Facebook isn't for you, then that's that. But it doesn't mean what they're doing is wrong.

reposted for emphasis, because this is the perfect one sentence rebuttal to that entire artic ... sorry ... rant.

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#29

Post by trustfundbaby »

patricklynch wrote: post #19
paul wrote: post #2

Clearly someone who "once handrolled his own html code and then uploaded it using UNIX commands" is simply too Awesome for Facebook.

Yes, that line came off as egotistical posturing. We got it. But I don't like that your snarky quip--which distorts the fact that the author continues to use facebook out of a sense of social obligation, and which I don't think adds much to the discussion--is the most upvoted comment here. Sure, you can be cynical and mock the guy, but I'd rather see you address his arguments. I'm not so much annoyed that you took th…

its because what he has there isn't as much a coherent argument as it is a rant ... an arrogant and snarky one at that.

He doesn't even bother to substantiate many of his claims ... (Facebook's UI sucks ... word?). As such the highly upvoted in-kind response, shouldn't be a surprise.

Re: Facebook is what happens to the Web when you hit it with the stupid stick

#30

Post by nicpottier »

Just for the record, I was uploading my own website back in '93 too, and I use Facebook and quite enjoy it, for the same reason the author does, because not all my friends were in the same boat.

Calling other people stupid for not building and maintaining their own website strikes as bit elitist, just as saying that people that don't design and build their own houses are lazy. We specialize.

To him it is easy / fun / rewarding to build his own blog, photo sharing, thingamabob. Sure, it has been for me too in the past. But it isn't anymore, especially because Facebook wins on the front of notifying my friends of things of mine they might find interesting.

In short, he is really missing the point, that Facebook has allowed millions upon millions of people to participate on the web in a way they couldn't before. Were they the first to try? No, but they are the first to do so so successfully across such a wide strata of users.

I also find it super ironic that he seems to think highly of Twitter (talk about lack of features!!) while gives Facebook a hard time for missing functionality. At least I can comment on 'status' messages on Facebook without changing my own status. :)

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