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Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

economist.com

21–30 of 57 posts

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at purchasing power parity (PPP), the numbers are closer together: $30,859 (Malaysia) and $32,023 (Portugal).

How many MacBook Pros do you get though. If anything, what the software developers might want is likely more expensive in Malaysia than Portugal. Likewise for India.

Even in Malaysia expenses for tools such as computers and software is small compared to wages for skilled professionals.

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#22
post #19

I really would like an alternative to Shenzhen for cheap manufacturing. Does anyone here have experience with factories located elsewhere?

I regularly quote PCBAs in different countries. If you are looking for any place as cheap as China, I can't say that such a place exists. The only way that the math works out is by building the product yourself with a cheap SMT line. Using a domestic CM is a non-starter for a low-margin consumer product.

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#23

> To the west, it sees its most talented engineers working in Silicon Valley. By pouring millions of dollars into Indian-made semiconductors, India’s government hopes to solve both problems at once. It really can't. Considering the "rootless" nature of Indian urban life, education and society, both culturally and linguistically, the lack of "pull" ensures that any money you pour into its colonial institutions is only…

Yup, that Delhi-Lucknow Ganga-Jamni tehzeeb is deeply rootless. I’m sure Mamta didi et al and the by now Bengali minority in Kolkata are happy you’re dubbing them as deeply rootless.

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#24
post #7

> To the west, it sees its most talented engineers working in Silicon Valley. By pouring millions of dollars into Indian-made semiconductors, India’s government hopes to solve both problems at once. It really can't. Considering the "rootless" nature of Indian urban life, education and society, both culturally and linguistically, the lack of "pull" ensures that any money you pour into its colonial institutions is only…

You vastly underestimate the size and diversity of India. Their middle class is bigger than that of the USA or I think even that of the entire EU. The can have a low rate on pretty much every statistic, while still having a higher total amount of it than us, simply due to.the sheer size of people. They could have an entire state, more modern, rich and with more people than Germany, while keeping their current statist…

He’s a closet Hindu nationalist

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Their middle class is bigger than that of the USA or I think even that of the entire EU. According to Wikipedia: "Indian middle class is 3% or 40 million of Indian population." That's not a whole lot of people and definitely not comparable to North America or Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_of_living_in_India

The same article has other stat that says anywhere between 30-300 million are considered middle class. Is there a consensus among economists on what the real number is ?

I'm willing to bet that the disposable income of the US/EU middle classes exceeds that of the Indian one at least 10:1, for now.

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#26
post #19

I really would like an alternative to Shenzhen for cheap manufacturing. Does anyone here have experience with factories located elsewhere?

Have experience in Vietnam. Some clients been asking for manufacturing there, but often get surprised that it will both be harder and cost the more than in China. Still some persist, and do that.

You have to effectively import everything from China, and just do final assembly there. I see close to no point doing that when local inputs cannot reach even 10% of the value.

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#27
post #4

I'm very excited about India's ambitions. It would not only be meaningful for India, but for many people around the world. We are lacking open chips, and project Shakti is on a trajectory to solve a part of that. I wonder when GCC learns to use the source code of the hardware along with the source code of the software to optimize the binary with full knowledge of the system.

We will never have competitive chips that are open down to the transistor and process level.

Down to the RTL, sure. But a truly open competitive chip, never ever.

You might get one on some ancient process from 20 years ago, which will be handily outclassed in every single metric except openness, which people make noise about but don't actually pay for (so no business case).

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#28
post #5

[flagged]

> with nets being installed due to people jumping out of windows

I see a lot of flak given to Foxconn (maybe because of them being Chinese). What is your opinion on the recent Facebook suicide? Also the articles on mental damage moderating articles in Facebook etc.

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#29
post #26
post #19

I really would like an alternative to Shenzhen for cheap manufacturing. Does anyone here have experience with factories located elsewhere?

Have experience in Vietnam. Some clients been asking for manufacturing there, but often get surprised that it will both be harder and cost the more than in China. Still some persist, and do that. You have to effectively import everything from China, and just do final assembly there. I see close to no point doing that when local inputs cannot reach even 10% of the value.

Just confirming your 10% figure. Across a dozen or so products I've been involved with, the actual labor/SMT assembly costs have been about 10% of the total BOM (bill of materials). Very roughly the cost per component-placement is about 1-cent (USD). My quoted labor rates are about $7/hour, though I see $15/hour at a lot of other factories (and warehouses).

Re: Fab in India: India is trying to create an indigenous chip-making industry

#30
post #19

I really would like an alternative to Shenzhen for cheap manufacturing. Does anyone here have experience with factories located elsewhere?

I regularly quote PCBAs in different countries. If you are looking for any place as cheap as China, I can't say that such a place exists. The only way that the math works out is by building the product yourself with a cheap SMT line. Using a domestic CM is a non-starter for a low-margin consumer product.

That's for ideological reasons that I am looking for an alternative. I am just wondering what would be the additional cost. Is that more than 2x the cost?
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