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The myth of the teacher pay gap?

nationalaffairs.com

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Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#21

Post by shantly »

negzero7 wrote: post #13
lotsofpulp wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the east and west coast, I've met quite a few teachers, and none have a 3 month break every year. Maybe a few weeks, but they are frequently tasked with continuing education or some other task during the summers. And during the year, they're always working 12+ hour days.

I think the "always working 12+ hour days" thing is a myth. My wife is a teacher and I would say her and the teachers she works with will occasionally work extra hours, but by far it's mostly 7.5 hour days (8:30am - 4pm).

Depends on the grade and subject. Some teachers have a whole lot more grading to do than others. And some grading or planning is slower-going than others. Also some schools are better about keeping time clear during the day for teachers to plan & grade than others.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#22

Post by jefft255 »

marricks wrote: post #7

I’m not so sure, my mom has been a teacher for 6 years and makes around 40k. Similar story for her peers. And even a 20% raise wouldn’t allow her to afford a home, or to send her kids to college without a huge debt burden... To be honest, I don’t even really care if that ends up being “in line with industry” some how, that’s still way too damn low. At that point everyone should be paid more. EDIT: realize I mistyped…

That's terrible, in Quebec median salary is 60K CAD, topping out at 80K at most schools (https://neuvoo.ca/salaire/?job=Enseignant%20Primaire), which is plenty to afford a house (of course not if monoparental). I don't even think that a lot considering the responsibilities they have.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#23

Post by SamuelAdams »

Why not just go directly to the source?

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#25-0000

Secondary School Teachers: annual mean wage: $64,230

If we zoom in on a particular type of teacher, you get ranges:

Middle school teachers https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes252022.htm

bottom 10% earn 39k or less.

bottom 25% earn 46k

50% earn 58k

75% earn 74k

90% earn 93k

Based on these metrics, it seems like a fine occupation. But I wonder how many teachers are new versus how many stay in the field a long time? I also wonder how location-dependent these salaries are.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#24

Post by ydnaclementine »

karl11 wrote: post #16
H1Supreme wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My wife is a teacher, and I can tell you exactly why. Which is?

They do a ton of work at home outside of school hours.

But according to this study, they aren’t and are only working ~40 hours. So who’s misunderstanding, this study that used time diaries from teachers or what the other teachers say? Both sources are self reported. I was expecting this study to ignore the extra hours that teachers put in away from the kids, but they seem to account for that.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#25

Post by jedberg »

You'll notice a lot of people commenting here "my wife is a teacher" (myself included). I think these statistics are missing two very big factors.

- In high cost areas like the Silicon Valley, almost every teacher is married to an engineer or is the child of an engineer. That is why they don't need a second job. Because they have a support network.

- Teacher quits are low because most of the people who would be great teachers simply never get into the job because of the crappy pay and work conditions. The people who are the best at it could easily get other jobs. My wife if a great example -- during the summer she worked a temp job in the first few years that was basically a management job that would have an annual salary in the six figure range. She only kept doing teaching because she loved it and because I made enough money to support us.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#26

Post by Someone1234 »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #15
Someone1234 wrote: post #10

This seems to use private education as a benchmark for the entire argument. From quit rates, to pay, to conditions, and beyond, but ignores the obvious which is that private pay and private conditions are largely pinned to be just above public salaries and conditions (meaning private education cannot be used as a benchmark for when someone is under-paid, over-qualified, or has too high of a quit rate because they are…

> required to have a masters degree This isn't true from my experience. I have several friends who teach K-12 education. They only have a bachelor's degree, many times in different areas than what they are teaching (English degree teaching Math, for example).

I updated the wording a little to be clearer. I was trying to say, to earn $50K starting salary quoted as a teacher you were required to have a master's degree ($43K otherwise ($45K otherwise)).

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#27

Post by defertoreptar »

> From the fall of 1987 through the fall of 2015, the number of public-school students increased by 20%, but the number of public-school teachers increased by 64%. More recently, in the four years leading up to the 2015-16 school year, teacher employment grew by 400,000, even as the number of students barely changed.

The effect of supply and demand has on job markets gets mentioned too little when discussing whether salaries are fair. We can't at the same time be encouraging more students to become teachers and complain about salaries when demand for those positions don't dictate incentivizing the supply. A more productive discussion would be about nudging students toward career paths that need them. The article mentions there's a "premium" on nursing right now based on the method used to criticize teacher's pay. Maybe there's a good reason for that.

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#28

Post by sol_remmy2 »

Someone1234 wrote: post #10

This seems to use private education as a benchmark for the entire argument. From quit rates, to pay, to conditions, and beyond, but ignores the obvious which is that private pay and private conditions are largely pinned to be just above public salaries and conditions (meaning private education cannot be used as a benchmark for when someone is under-paid, over-qualified, or has too high of a quit rate because they are…

Don't you realize most people don't have the patience or ability to be a software engineer? That it is one of the most intellectually demanding jobs in society? And that 4 years computer science education is both expensive and difficult? Recognize your privilige - you are very smart and, for you, programming is easy. You are in the minority.

How about dental hygienists? Dental Hygienists made a median salary of $74,070 (2017). https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/dental-hygienist/... That's a very easy job that only requires 2 years of training. Shouldn't they be paid less so teachers can be paid more?

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#29

Post by noer »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #15
Someone1234 wrote: post #10

This seems to use private education as a benchmark for the entire argument. From quit rates, to pay, to conditions, and beyond, but ignores the obvious which is that private pay and private conditions are largely pinned to be just above public salaries and conditions (meaning private education cannot be used as a benchmark for when someone is under-paid, over-qualified, or has too high of a quit rate because they are…

> required to have a masters degree This isn't true from my experience. I have several friends who teach K-12 education. They only have a bachelor's degree, many times in different areas than what they are teaching (English degree teaching Math, for example).

It varies state to state. Some states require you to have a masters degree, some require you to have a masters degree or being the process of obtaining one, some states require you to have a masters but will waive that requirement if there's a need and some states require only a bachelors degree. Edit: there is a list of state requirements here: https://www.asha.org/Advocacy/state/StateTeacherCredentialin...

Re: The myth of the teacher pay gap?

#30

Post by r-s »

jefft255 wrote: post #22
marricks wrote: post #7

I’m not so sure, my mom has been a teacher for 6 years and makes around 40k. Similar story for her peers. And even a 20% raise wouldn’t allow her to afford a home, or to send her kids to college without a huge debt burden... To be honest, I don’t even really care if that ends up being “in line with industry” some how, that’s still way too damn low. At that point everyone should be paid more. EDIT: realize I mistyped…

That's terrible, in Quebec median salary is 60K CAD, topping out at 80K at most schools ( https://neuvoo.ca/salaire/?job=Enseignant%20Primaire ), which is plenty to afford a house (of course not if monoparental). I don't even think that a lot considering the responsibilities they have.

Alberta has teachers top out at around 100K CAD. The Average is around 80k. I suspect the average teacher salary is similar to an average software developer salary here. The data I can find actually shows the average teacher salary higher.
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