Is it possible for investment funds to become insolvent?
Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
21–30 of 289 posts
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#22You’ve got to applaud Masayoshi Son for his tenacity at the very least. Lived through the Dot Com Crash, caused the next one 20 years later. That’s a big achievement in my book. How many people can really say they’ve been able to do something like that? [Edit] I should probably add a caveat that Masayoshi Son isn’t the dumb one here. No, he’s actually quite the genius, managing to convince Saudia Arabia to basically…
I wonder if his investments could really trigger something like that. Are there other investments of the Vision fund that are falling apart besides WeWork and Wag?
Uber (lost money on the IPO), Cruise (just delayed their launch, still have no product or revenue), they bought Boston Dynamics (super awesome technology but the business doesn't seem viable), Light (really awesome idea to change mobile photography, but seems an obvious failure at this point), Zume (a pizza chain buildings robots that's raised hundreds of millions of dollars...they do not have any production robots), Nuro (another overhyped self-driving startup, because Uber and Cruise weren't enough billions)...this is not an exhaustive list. I have repeatedly said SoftBank is some of the dumbest money in the Valley, and I stand by that proclamation.
https://www.businessinsider.com/running-list-softbank-invest...
Now that said, it is expected that most investments in any VC portfolio will fail! Something like a 70% failure rate, with 20% being moderately successful, and 10% being very successful is considered very good for the VC industry. But at the end of the day it's ROI - you make money or you lose money. I think SoftBank is going to lose more money than all the other VC firms simply because they started with more money to lose.
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#23The big issue with the product is that after the first transaction, no-one has any incentive to use your marketplace.
There is a company in my country doing this. They are probably not worth zero tbf but they have a massive issue with people just cutting them out after the first transaction.
And what is the problem with just building a brand? I employ a bunch of dog walkers, I do checks on them, I build a trusted brand...the $300m is a solution without a problem.
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#24You’ve got to applaud Masayoshi Son for his tenacity at the very least. Lived through the Dot Com Crash, caused the next one 20 years later. That’s a big achievement in my book. How many people can really say they’ve been able to do something like that? [Edit] I should probably add a caveat that Masayoshi Son isn’t the dumb one here. No, he’s actually quite the genius, managing to convince Saudia Arabia to basically…
I wonder if his investments could really trigger something like that. Are there other investments of the Vision fund that are falling apart besides WeWork and Wag?
uber (see stock), cruise (tbf, everyone overvalued the AV space), slack (see stock), zume pizza (come on), brandless (https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/26/report-softbank-backed-bra...), compass (https://www.wsj.com/articles/softbank-backed-real-estate-bro...) ...
Which investments are doing well? Maybe Paytm?
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
Can we make a small exception for when the comment perfectly elucidates what everyone is actually thinking while reading the article? I’m sorry, all due respect, but.... a dog walking company .
[deleted]
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#26If you're Saudi Arabia with a silly amount of money in cash, are you looking for 10-100x return out of this, or are you simply looking for a place to park liquid funds that won't lose as much as leaving it in German government bonds.
mega yachts aren't cheap
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#27What I don't get about the Vision Fund is how so many of its investments lack (pun intended) vision. Other than the ARM, Nvidia, and a few billion in biotech (about $3 billion[1]) investments, so much of the fund has gone into pretty "obvious" traditional startups. If I had a $100 billion fund, I wouldn't be swinging for these singles and doubles (which Uber and WeWork were by the time Softbank got involved, although…
The problem when you have so much money to invest is that your customers need to actually invest it. It's much harder to invest $1-$5M at a time when you can just go back to the WeWork pool and drop $2B.
It's like painting a wall mural using fine tipped brushes, rather than wide paint rollers or a paint gun. You get the job done so much faster, but your quality will suffer tremendously.
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#28How would have JavaScript made them better off?
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#29These on demand - fulfilled by gig contracting platforms can _only_ provide value if there has been a big technological change that undermines expertise in a job. Uber works because of google maps knowing a faster route than even the 20 year veteran tax driver.
There hasn't been a revolutionary technology in dog walking, just people who need cash but dont know pets.
There hasnt been a revolutionary technology in grocery shopping, just people who need cash and dont care about the quality of your basket.
etc.
Re: Dog-walking startup Wag raised $300M, then things got messy
#30This is fucking insane. $300M for a dog walking company, a dog walking company. A dog walking company. A fucking dog walking company.
Ok, but please don't post unsubstantive comments to Hacker News.
What the person is trying to say is these startups are essentially playing by the rules of "crossing the chasm", "the lean startup" etc, but only in the most theatrical and vapid of ways.
It's an application of the startup playbook on something essentially meaningless.
Wag is an idea that could be well executed in about 2 million - a trendy app, some "social networking" for dogs and their owners, a form of payment and you're done. Moving on in life, left the building with everything working forever kind of done
But this isn't about that, this is startup theater of the absurd and incompetent.
Add on to that the myth that competent execution can be done by bozos if you simply give them more money (people don't magically become smarter with more money) and you get this - ships of well paid fools going through the startup motions.
A dog walking company...