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Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

jeffcroft.com

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Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#21

Post by jrockway »

sabat wrote: post #18
jraines wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they ever suggest that their way is the only way. There's nothing wrong with saying how you do something and making a case for it; you don't have to add a disclaimer to everything you write about doing business.

I think you have a valid point. The reason I partially disagree with it is that attitude plays a part here. 37signals comes off as though they think they need to tell people how to live; they love being up in your grill. The contents of their posts are often reasoned well enough, but their attitude says "you suck; let us tell you how to suck less."

It's your choice to read their blog. The fact that you take their arguments seriously means that they're probably on to something.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#22

Post by davidw »

petervidani wrote: post #12
redorb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his point is if "You are only designing web apps that your will own and operate or are in a family of web apps that will have a similar look" then it is ok to skip photo shop

I agree. I think, like it's been said, that 37Signals is a special case. I believe in the field we all work in, it is wise to assume a graphic mockup as a step in the progress and then carefully decide whether or not it's a neutral step based on the history of projects you've completed. In other words, there is no bottom line.

I don't think 37signals is necessarily a special case - there are plenty of customer oriented websites out there that have a look and feel, and don't require client buy-in.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#23

Post by ardit33 »

josefresco wrote: post #13
kyro wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will you use instead?

Fireworks: vector based, built for websites and web apps. Unfortunately it's from Adobe now too, so you deal with bloat that Macromedia wasn't very fond of.

I still use Fireworks 8. Works like a champ.

Most advanced features of Photoshop, are better left to the professional designers. If you are using them, then you probably are wasting too much time prototyping.

Fireworks (or Gimp, or paint.net), or Visio are good enough.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#24

Post by ardit33 »

bprater wrote: post #17
mojuba wrote: post #2

I'm going to skip Photoshop for an entirely different reason. All Adobe products gradually became classical bloatware over the past years. One or two minor features, or otherwise just a couple of crappy-buzzword-features and you get a binary twice as bigger as the previous one. When you realize they are doing that just because they need to improve sales, you feel betrayed. So honestly, today I feel betrayed by Adobe…

I've used every version of Photoshop since 2.5 (thats back in the day before layers existed!), and I've consistently been more happy with each version that comes out. Often, it's very simple subtle things that improve my workflow, like layer folders or improved styles or non-destructive layers.

I think you probably can be classified as a fanboi. I don't mean it in the insulting way; simply you have been using it for so long, that you are used to it totally, and comfortable with it, and any other alternative would be considered non good enough.

People that have been using it just for a while, and used a lot of other tools, can give a more balanced opinion to it.

For me, I have CS2 in my computer, and I almost never use it. Fireworks has been enough for %90 of my needs.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#25

Post by jraines »

sabat wrote: post #19
bprater wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compelling writing often forces one to take a strong position.

Agreed. My point is just that 37signals doesn't have to go as far as they do. A somewhat milder position would aid their message.

Actually it almost certainly wouldn't, unless you mean specifically for you.

They're constantly in the press, they generate conversations on sites like this, and they've spawned a legion of (number)(noun) imitators. It's one of the basic principles of copywriting and social media marketing that it pays to be bold and occasionally controversial.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#26

Post by brfox »

antidaily wrote: post #4

For the most part, Mr. Croft and 37signals work in too different arenas (as he points out). Bottom line: if you're designing a webpage, its still ok to start in photoshop. If you're designing an app with buttons and forms, start with HTML/CSS.

Mr. Croft could have spent more time working on the colors for his own website. I can barely read the top menus and the last paragraph. I had to highlight the last paragraph in order to even see it. Its just a good thing it was a live website and not a photoshop image that I couldn't interact with.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#27

Post by DougBTX »

mojuba wrote: post #5
kyro wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What will you use instead?

There's GIMP, but I don't see a lot of enthusiasm on the Net about it. I think I'll try to find something small and simple that suits preliminary web site modeling and is capable of producing web formats - png, jpeg and gif - out of the slices of the basic graphical model. In fact GIMP may be OK for doing just that.

For prototyping, you might want to try something more focused on vector drawings than just pixels, i.e. Illustrator vs. Photoshop. I've not found any great open source vector image editors yet though. In the market for one though.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#28

Post by sabat »

jraines wrote: post #25
sabat wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. My point is just that 37signals doesn't have to go as far as they do. A somewhat milder position would aid their message.

Actually it almost certainly wouldn't, unless you mean specifically for you. They're constantly in the press, they generate conversations on sites like this, and they've spawned a legion of (number)(noun) imitators. It's one of the basic principles of copywriting and social media marketing that it pays to be bold and occasionally controversial.

Pissing people off garners attention, sure. I'm not sure it's good business in the long run, though.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#29

Post by bct »

DougBTX wrote: post #27
mojuba wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's GIMP, but I don't see a lot of enthusiasm on the Net about it. I think I'll try to find something small and simple that suits preliminary web site modeling and is capable of producing web formats - png, jpeg and gif - out of the slices of the basic graphical model. In fact GIMP may be OK for doing just that.

For prototyping, you might want to try something more focused on vector drawings than just pixels, i.e. Illustrator vs. Photoshop. I've not found any great open source vector image editors yet though. In the market for one though.

Inkscape's the big one.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#30

Post by helveticaman »

sabat wrote: post #28
jraines wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it almost certainly wouldn't, unless you mean specifically for you. They're constantly in the press, they generate conversations on sites like this, and they've spawned a legion of (number)(noun) imitators. It's one of the basic principles of copywriting and social media marketing that it pays to be bold and occasionally controversial.

Pissing people off garners attention, sure. I'm not sure it's good business in the long run, though.

I agree, but...maybe it is good in the long term. I can conceive of that being the case.
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