How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls • Hacker News Board

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#21

Post by sambe » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

kemayo wrote: post #18

BuckRogers wrote: post #13

It’s a privately held platform. The apps created by Apple should be on top if they want them to be. There’s no right to equal access such as with Net Neutrality, it’s not a publicly owned or subsidized platform. The only way this could possibly be wrong is if we nationalize Apple. I’m definitely left of center economically and I have no problem with Apple placing their apps on top. It would completely align with curr…

Yes, but the article isn't objecting to Apple listing its own Podcasts app at the top of a search for "podcast". It's objecting to it then listing Compass, Find Friends, Tips, and 12 more Apple apps that aren't related to the search query before any non-Apple app is listed. (Which issue they have since fixed.) The article is about "Apple made a mistake in its search algorithm", not about competition per-se.

The article uses the term "stacked". It refers to a complaint to the EU about the abuse of their position as owner of the App Store. It refers to a Supreme Court anti-trust case. It repeatedly frames the discussion in terms of what Apple gained vs competitors.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#22

Post by helpPeople » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #4

I appreciate Apple offering its own apps, as I don't trust anyone else with my data.

You should not be trusting anyone, including Apple with your data.

The same company that won't admit hardware flaws won't admit they use your Data.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#23

Post by JustSomeNobody » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #2

The algorithm examines 42 different signals, they said, including an app’s relevance to a given search, its ratings, and its popularity based on downloads and user clicks. [...] If you searched for “podcast” in May 2018, you would have had to scroll through as many as 14 Apple apps before finding one made by another publisher. [...] “We make mistakes all the time,” Mr. Cue said. “We’re happy to admit when we do,” Mr.…

What gets me is that if you do it now, Overcast is about 9th and Pocket Casts is 25th or something. Those are two very popular podcast apps. I stopped scrolling looking for Castro.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#24

Post by frogpelt » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14

I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but it seems pretty minor compared to the fact that: 1) Apple's apps come preinstalled on every iPhone. 2) Apple's apps have permission to do things that 3rd party apps cannot. If I search for "Web Browser" on the App Store... well, technically I'll get results from third parties, but every single one is just a UI skin around Apple's own browser. That strikes me as a much larger p…

I see it differently.

Since Apple makes the hardware and the software I don't have a problem with them preinstalling their own products.

However, when a user is clearly searching for alternatives on the app store, it matters how far down you have to scroll to find a 3rd party app.

Spotify being the 23rd result for a "music" search is absurd.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#25

Post by Causality1 » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:05 PM UTC

fermenflo wrote: post #20

Ok? I feel like Apple is free to promote whatever they damn please on their own platform. Are we seriously criticizing a company for promoting their products ahead of 3rd party products on their own platform? and I mean, how much money do you think Apple is making from someone having their compass app downloaded? Seems like an inflammatory and in-genuine story.

The EU fined Microsoft six hundred million dollars just for including Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player in Windows by default. Apple's behavior is much worse than that.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#26

Post by bluntfang » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14

I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but it seems pretty minor compared to the fact that: 1) Apple's apps come preinstalled on every iPhone. 2) Apple's apps have permission to do things that 3rd party apps cannot. If I search for "Web Browser" on the App Store... well, technically I'll get results from third parties, but every single one is just a UI skin around Apple's own browser. That strikes me as a much larger p…

>Apple's apps come preinstalled on every iPhone.

Not only that, but the autocreated links to addresses in the messaging app will not work with other map apps. In fact, if you've uninstalled the apple maps app, the address links in messenger are completely useless.

* unless i'm mistaken, but I'm a fairly adept technical user and haven't found a way to make address links work.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#27

Post by JustSomeNobody » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

fermenflo wrote: post #20

Ok? I feel like Apple is free to promote whatever they damn please on their own platform. Are we seriously criticizing a company for promoting their products ahead of 3rd party products on their own platform? and I mean, how much money do you think Apple is making from someone having their compass app downloaded? Seems like an inflammatory and in-genuine story.

Ah, the old, "It's my football so I should always get to be quarterback" argument. I guess that works for a while.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#28

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

fermenflo wrote: post #20

Ok? I feel like Apple is free to promote whatever they damn please on their own platform. Are we seriously criticizing a company for promoting their products ahead of 3rd party products on their own platform? and I mean, how much money do you think Apple is making from someone having their compass app downloaded? Seems like an inflammatory and in-genuine story.

[deleted]

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#29

Post by coldtea » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14

I'm not saying this isn't a problem, but it seems pretty minor compared to the fact that: 1) Apple's apps come preinstalled on every iPhone. 2) Apple's apps have permission to do things that 3rd party apps cannot. If I search for "Web Browser" on the App Store... well, technically I'll get results from third parties, but every single one is just a UI skin around Apple's own browser. That strikes me as a much larger p…

>Apple's apps come preinstalled on every iPhone.

Whose apps should have come preinstalled on iPhones? Samsungs? No apps, let the user install everything from scratch?

The whole value proposition from Apple is that you get something that "Just works".

It might have issues and bugs, like everything has, but the idea behind "just works" => is more or less ready, no fiddling required for the regular Joe.

Re: How Apple's Apps Topped Rivals in the App Store It Controls

#30

Post by nixpulvis » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

fermenflo wrote: post #20

Ok? I feel like Apple is free to promote whatever they damn please on their own platform. Are we seriously criticizing a company for promoting their products ahead of 3rd party products on their own platform? and I mean, how much money do you think Apple is making from someone having their compass app downloaded? Seems like an inflammatory and in-genuine story.

It's an antitrust issue. If I own the market and some of the fruit, I'll clearly put myself in a better position to attract customers, and thus make sales. The rest of the fruit vendors are 2nd class.

Not to mention Apple employees are banned from making apps outside of company time, since they are aware of the issue with insiders having power to make apps that out compete the rest.