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A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

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Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#21

Post by lopmotr »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #14

> 40 percent concurred with the thought that "When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking 'just let them all burn' "; and 40 percent also agreed that "we cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over." Hard not to sympathize with this perspective when: - The people running the country lie us into an unending, ruinous war with help from…

Yet almost everyone keeps on voting for the same people to run the country. They mostly believe keeping the enemy other party out of power is more important than all of the other problems combined. Either that or they don't vote which is itself a vote for the establishment.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#22

Post by mikelyons »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #14

> 40 percent concurred with the thought that "When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking 'just let them all burn' "; and 40 percent also agreed that "we cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over." Hard not to sympathize with this perspective when: - The people running the country lie us into an unending, ruinous war with help from…

And assassination used to be the way this was corrected?

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#23

Post by AndrewBissell »

lopmotr wrote: post #21
AndrewBissell wrote: post #14

> 40 percent concurred with the thought that "When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking 'just let them all burn' "; and 40 percent also agreed that "we cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over." Hard not to sympathize with this perspective when: - The people running the country lie us into an unending, ruinous war with help from…

Yet almost everyone keeps on voting for the same people to run the country. They mostly believe keeping the enemy other party out of power is more important than all of the other problems combined. Either that or they don't vote which is itself a vote for the establishment.

I think Trump is a particularly skilled con artist, who manages to sell himself as the tableflipper candidate even though he is as much a creature of the establishment as all the rest of them. So I don't think it's true that people are voting for continuity even though (so far) that's been the practical result.

As another counterpoint, Bernie Sanders consistently attracts a large share of the vote while explicitly advocating for socialism. It's very possible he would have been the Democratic candidate for POTUS in 2016 if the DNC had not kneecapped his campaign.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#24

Post by mirimir »

I've had my share of NFC at times. I was an idealistic Young Pioneer (not that different from Boy Scout). But I got disillusioned, and became an idealistic hippie immigrant.

Then I got disillusioned again, and went punk/metal. Megadeth's "Addicted To Chaos" was my favorite song for a while. Plus Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Butthole Surfers, Judas Priest, Turbonegro, Marilyn Manson, etc. But still, I did a PhD and played in academica for a while, so I was arguably just posing.

Now, it's not so much that I have NFC. I'm just not at all optimistic about the future. But not like it was during the 60s-80s, when nuclear holocaust seemed all too likely. Now it's mostly the slow slide into an ~unlivable climate. And all the social breakdowns that will come with that. And given that I'll be dead, it's not such a big deal, personally.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#25

Post by ineedasername »

I think the verbiage is misleading and inflammatory. "Need For Chaos" can more reasonably be understood as "desire for change" when the individuals see no actual path for that change to occur.

Calling it a "need for chaos" further alienates those whose very alienation is the cause of the phenomenon on display. Better to use more neutral language that doesn't inflame the population being observed or bias those doing the observation into further perpetuating an "us vs them" mentality.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#26

Post by ineedasername »

Jun8 wrote: post #11

(from https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/characters/nm0000323 ) one of my favorite movie quotes: Bruce Wayne : Criminals aren't complicated, Alfred. Just have to figure out what he's after. Alfred Pennyworth : With respect Master Wayne, perhaps this is a man that you don't fully understand, either. A long time ago, I was in Burma. My friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the l…

I always found this ironic. The answer to someone who wants to watch things burn is to, in effect, give them what they want and burn things down, on a smaller scale though, I guess?

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#27

Post by mirimir »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #14

> 40 percent concurred with the thought that "When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking 'just let them all burn' "; and 40 percent also agreed that "we cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over." Hard not to sympathize with this perspective when: - The people running the country lie us into an unending, ruinous war with help from…

From Judas Priest:

    You can look to the left and look to the right
    But you will live in danger tonight
    When the enemy comes he will never be heard
    He'll blow your mind and not say a word.
    Blinding lights--flashing colors
    Sleepless nights...
    If the man with the power
    Can't keep it under control
    Some heads are gonna roll
    ...
    The power-mad freaks who are ruling the earth
    Will show how little they think you're worth
    With animal lust they'll devour your life
    And slice your word to bits like a knife
    One last day burning hell fire
    You're blown away... 
    If the man with the power
    Can't keep it under control
    Some heads are gonna roll
    ...

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#28

Post by war1025 »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #17
war1025 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know why you're getting downvoted. That's more or less why I voted for him.

Trump is far less "burn it to the ground" than his fans like to imagine. He's a friend to Wall Street, K Street, Raytheon Acres and the good old Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Didn't see this Michael Moore video [1] until after the election, but it pretty well describes why I voted for him. I'm doing pretty well, but I have a blue collar background, and the people I grew up around weren't.

Didn't really figure he'd win, but my dad had died earlier in the year, and I figured he would have voted Trump, so I did it for him.

Wasn't really a "burn it to the ground" thing in a literal sense. Basically what the end of the video clip says: "It's going to be a big Fuck You to the establishment. And it will feel good."

And it did.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxDRqeuLNag

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#29

Post by war1025 »

kelnos wrote: post #18
war1025 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know why you're getting downvoted. That's more or less why I voted for him.

Out of curiosity, how do you feel now, 2.5 years in? If you knew in November 2016 what you know now, would you still have voted for him? Do you plan to vote for him in 2020? Not trying to troll or start a political flamewar here, I'm genuinely interested, especially as it's pretty rare that a HNer will "admit" to being a Trump voter. The thing that always gets me is that even though Trump presented himself as this te…

I normally don't admit to it, but I've become less fearful of the backlash lately.

Current plan is to vote for him in 2020. Worst case I will abstain from voting for President.

The economy is still on fire as much as it's ever been in the midwest. Can't complain there.

The trade war is unfortunate, but the alternative is to bend over and take it from China. Everyone agrees that they don't play fair. So the options are to do something about it, or to just let them keep on. My family has a manufacturing background, so all the offshoring is sort of personal.

The racial crap isn't nearly as much of an issue as the media likes to make it. It makes for good ratings, though.

---

Basically I'm hedging my bets on at worst I think the government should be robust enough not to be brought down by one bad leader. And if it is, then maybe we deserved to fall. Plus from my perspective he's not doing all that bad.

Re: A Shocking Number of Americans Want to 'Just Let Them All Burn'

#30

Post by ineedasername »

mikelyons wrote: post #22
AndrewBissell wrote: post #14

> 40 percent concurred with the thought that "When it comes to our political and social institutions, I cannot help thinking 'just let them all burn' "; and 40 percent also agreed that "we cannot fix the problems in our social institutions, we need to tear them down and start over." Hard not to sympathize with this perspective when: - The people running the country lie us into an unending, ruinous war with help from…

And assassination used to be the way this was corrected?

I didn't see anything in the parent comment about assassination, but given the topic: Yes, when governments were effectively embodied by one single person invested with something approaching absolute power, bumping off that person would change the situation. Of course it often plunged the kingdom into some type of crisis until the succession was decided and a new monarch/king/whatever was installed. That's still the case in some countries, like what happened in Iraq w/ Saddam Hussein (yes, it was more complicated than that, I know) But in other countries that have some flavor of democracy, bumping off the person in charge is not really a path to changing the social/economic order. The power structures go way beyond a single individual, and continuity is fairly well preserved.
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