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Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

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Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#21

Post by DanielBMarkham »

This was a good essay: well-written, cogent, and thought-provoking.

I know there are a lot of folks that want to take this essay and bash it into some political points. I think that's probably part of the problem Mattis is describing; our desire to make social media hay out of whatever we're given.

He does have a point about current politics in there. It's hidden quite a bit. His larger point, though, is about how instant communication is changing the nature of how governments work. Presumably that's what he gets paid for: understanding and projecting current trends through a historical lens.

I don't know what the solution is. A big part of the problem is that nobody much wants to talk about the generic situation. There's no clicks in it. Instead it's pitching rhetorical softballs to people who are already on your side. Congrats to Mattis for being able to walk through this mess and still come out looking okay. He's doing better than most.

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#22

Post by luckylion »

padobson wrote: post #18

This was thoughtful, measured, wise, well-written, and completely ineffectual. There's no "threat of tribalism". We're living in tribalism. This piece could only be effective in another climate. Ham-fisted, on-the-nose, bluntness is the only way to get your message across to a political audience in 2019.

> There's no "threat of tribalism". We're living in tribalism.

I understand the point to be "tribalism is great, but we should be one tribe dominating all (or most, with our allies, as long as they are aligned with us) the other tribes". I didn't see any general call against tribalism. "Defending our way of life" is pretty much that: "the tribe's way of life".

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#23

Post by atlasunshrugged »

Svip wrote: post #6
reallydontask wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it seems unlikely that anybody will run against trump on the republican primary but we'll see

Two people already are: Bill Weld and Joe Walsh. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/its-hard-to-know-what-k...

But fair enough that there don't seem to be too many serious contenders (as far as I'm aware, it seems some pundits are even just wondering if Joe Walsh is doing this simply as a play to get more attention/funds)

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#24

Post by Ididntdothis »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #11
hudibras wrote: post #2

[flagged]

It has been well over a 100 years since the last time the president didn't get the nomination. It's pretty much going to be Trump vs Biden.

“It's pretty much going to be Trump vs Biden.”

A 74 year old vs a 78 year old. Pretty appealing options.

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#25

Post by scottlocklin »

luckylion wrote: post #22
padobson wrote: post #18

This was thoughtful, measured, wise, well-written, and completely ineffectual. There's no "threat of tribalism". We're living in tribalism. This piece could only be effective in another climate. Ham-fisted, on-the-nose, bluntness is the only way to get your message across to a political audience in 2019.

> There's no "threat of tribalism". We're living in tribalism. I understand the point to be "tribalism is great, but we should be one tribe dominating all (or most, with our allies, as long as they are aligned with us) the other tribes". I didn't see any general call against tribalism. "Defending our way of life" is pretty much that: "the tribe's way of life".

> I didn't see any general call against tribalism.

"We are dividing into hostile tribes cheering against each other, fueled by emotion and a mutual disdain that jeopardizes our future, instead of rediscovering our common ground and finding solutions."

The phrase "defending our way of life" isn't in the article.

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#26

Post by buttcoinslol »

CPLX wrote: post #16

While I genuinely believe there may be an interesting perspective here, reviewing it should be done after establishing proper context. Which, in this case, is that the person speaking has so far mostly chosen to spend their life lethally inflicting American hegemony on populations around the world via mechanized warfare. Not to diminish their service on the board of Theranos and General Dynamics of course.

A military officer participating in warfare?! How uncouth.

Were you just looking to get in a dig about US hegemony? I prefer it to Chinese hegemony, and so should you.

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#27

Post by CPLX »

buttcoinslol wrote: post #26
CPLX wrote: post #16

While I genuinely believe there may be an interesting perspective here, reviewing it should be done after establishing proper context. Which, in this case, is that the person speaking has so far mostly chosen to spend their life lethally inflicting American hegemony on populations around the world via mechanized warfare. Not to diminish their service on the board of Theranos and General Dynamics of course.

A military officer participating in warfare?! How uncouth. Were you just looking to get in a dig about US hegemony? I prefer it to Chinese hegemony, and so should you.

Perhaps you’re able to detect the potential issues with a denunciation of tribalism made by someone who had a leading role in the homicide of several hundred thousand Iraqis for no apparent reason beyond their regional, ethnic, and religious affiliations.

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#28

Post by golemotron »

CPLX wrote: post #16

While I genuinely believe there may be an interesting perspective here, reviewing it should be done after establishing proper context. Which, in this case, is that the person speaking has so far mostly chosen to spend their life lethally inflicting American hegemony on populations around the world via mechanized warfare. Not to diminish their service on the board of Theranos and General Dynamics of course.

> Not to diminish their service

His service. Mattis is a man.

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#29

Post by dondawest »

scottlocklin wrote: post #25
luckylion wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no "threat of tribalism". We're living in tribalism. I understand the point to be "tribalism is great, but we should be one tribe dominating all (or most, with our allies, as long as they are aligned with us) the other tribes". I didn't see any general call against tribalism. "Defending our way of life" is pretty much that: "the tribe's way of life".

> I didn't see any general call against tribalism. "We are dividing into hostile tribes cheering against each other, fueled by emotion and a mutual disdain that jeopardizes our future, instead of rediscovering our common ground and finding solutions." The phrase "defending our way of life" isn't in the article.

>"We are dividing into hostile tribes cheering against each other, fueled by emotion and a mutual disdain that jeopardizes our future, instead of rediscovering our common ground and finding solutions."

This describes the entirety of human history. And CERTAINLY the history of America.

Re: Duty, Democracy and the Threat of Tribalism

#30

Post by dondawest »

CPLX wrote: post #27
buttcoinslol wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A military officer participating in warfare?! How uncouth. Were you just looking to get in a dig about US hegemony? I prefer it to Chinese hegemony, and so should you.

Perhaps you’re able to detect the potential issues with a denunciation of tribalism made by someone who had a leading role in the homicide of several hundred thousand Iraqis for no apparent reason beyond their regional, ethnic, and religious affiliations.

No apparent reason? What about the “rape rooms”?
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