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A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

newyorker.com

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Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#21

Post by momokoko »

okmokmz wrote: post #20
momokoko wrote: post #16

The reason I consider ending my life is because I have done the things I've wanted to do in life. I would not have much to write on that paper as opposed to visiting some friends and family for some conversation and hugs. I think we forget that much of the suicide rate in adults, especially over 50, is that the burden of life in much of the United States can become higher than the benefits for some people at that age…

There are 26 countries with suicide rates higher than the US

I am in the US, so I was speifically listing the US because that is what I am familiar with and did not want to make assumptions about other regions. Appologies if you took offense to that in any way.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#22

Post by mikelyons »

momokoko wrote: post #16

The reason I consider ending my life is because I have done the things I've wanted to do in life. I would not have much to write on that paper as opposed to visiting some friends and family for some conversation and hugs. I think we forget that much of the suicide rate in adults, especially over 50, is that the burden of life in much of the United States can become higher than the benefits for some people at that age…

The reason I consider ending my life is because I've done or experienced all the things that realistically I want to or can. I'm never going to be an attractive man, so I'll never have love, or a wife and kids. It's just not worth it to me to work to pay to sustain myself just to watch the planet be destroyed and the social fabric disintegrate. There's just nothing worth the time or effort when living is just so unenjoyable.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#23

Post by gerbilly »

mistrial9 wrote: post #19
emptysongglass wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This Zen parable is faulty wisdom (like so much of Mahayana and Vajrayana fanfiction). The title the Buddha used to refer to himself, Tathagata , can simultaneously be translated as, "Thus Comes One" and "Thus Goes One". It's not about a path where there is no coming and going, it's about both simultaneously.

great truths are paradox -- both true and not true, at once

You are talking about 'dialectical statements' statements that contain an apparent contradiction.

They are not true and false at the same time, they are only commonly understood to be a contradiction, and the point of the koan or statement is to push the practitioner to is to see through the apparent contradictions.

Koans and Zen stories are a training aid, but are not a substitute for common sense.

Usually the contradiction occurs because the opposing statements come from different levels of analysis (the conventional: "I am going to 7/11 to get a drink.) the ultimate (I am just an unfolding process dependent on conditions that changes from one second to another, so in a way there is no I that goes to 7/11 ...).

The thing is, even though 'ultimate' sounds more awesome, buddhists say "I" all the time. Just the same way that engineers use classical mechanics every day for certain classes of problems, because there's no need to bring in disappearing cats and quantum weirdness for that level of analysis.

To every level of suffering, there are appropriate tools, but for some reason in the west, we often prefer to discuss complex subtle metaphysical statements we don't really understand¹, than to just go clean up the mess in the kitchen, which is a more pressing issue.

The only reason I'm even engaging in this kind of talk is to discourage others from approaching buddhism that way.

1: Because they are meant to be experienced, not thought about. Full disclosure, I only know what I don't know, and I don't fully understand them either.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#24

Post by specialist »

MandieD wrote: post #7

One of the techniques of what Westerners call Stoicism is the negative visualization that Nemoto has his patients/clients undergo - imagining you only have a few weeks to live, that you've lost your material wealth, that you've lost someone important to you, thinking about your death. Also, intentional self-deprivation. "A Guide to the Good Life: the Ancient Art of Stoic Joy" was well worth reading and has a whole ch…

I have some experience here.

I now prefer to think of every day as the start of my life and ask myself "What to do first?"

Life is a gift, everyday a celebration.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#25

Post by emptysongglass »

gerbilly wrote: post #23
mistrial9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

great truths are paradox -- both true and not true, at once

You are talking about 'dialectical statements' statements that contain an apparent contradiction. They are not true and false at the same time, they are only commonly understood to be a contradiction, and the point of the koan or statement is to push the practitioner to is to see through the apparent contradictions. Koans and Zen stories are a training aid, but are not a substitute for common sense. Usually the contr…

There is nothing contradictory here. The beauty of the title is to impress upon the listener the essential nature of the liberated mind and all of existence as non-dual. It isn't one or the other because the further down you go, what emerges vanishes instantaneously, simultaneously.

Zen and Vajrayana practices can be an effective tool but I see more faulty thinking in its practitioners than people who stick to Sravakayana (Theravada + surviving canon of the other Early Buddhist schools).

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#26

Post by jjs »

emptysongglass wrote: post #15
gerbilly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what is being referred to, but if you are implying that buddhism teaches everything is an illusion, the Buddha himself specifically warned his followers away from nihilism and solipsism. Your everyday conventional wisdom is not negated by buddhism. For example, buddhist people use the word 'I' all the time ("Let me show you the path on which there is no coming and going."), despite trying to realise the doctrin…

This Zen parable is faulty wisdom (like so much of Mahayana and Vajrayana fanfiction). The title the Buddha used to refer to himself, Tathagata , can simultaneously be translated as, "Thus Comes One" and "Thus Goes One". It's not about a path where there is no coming and going, it's about both simultaneously.

> This Zen parable is faulty wisdom (like so much of Mahayana and Vajrayana fanfiction)

Please don't promote sectarian strife here.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#27

Post by 75dvtwin »

This a very good article, and good comments here.

Reading it, there is a quote from the person 'T':

> "I understand that I’m in such an irretrievable situation because of my own fault, and I myself have to solve the problem. However, I’m a weak, dependent person who was financially supported by my parents until after reaching thirty, so I’m too weak to find a way out of this situation myself. . ."

These words, I cannot help myself to think -- that these words, these labels -- are not something he(she) came up with... Instead, these words are really the words of T's parents, that got implanted in his head after continuous drilling and pushing and pushing and pushing him to go to that law school.

It is sad and painful to read. When parents cannot appreciate the natural beauty, talents and just overall the magic of life in their children....

Nobody can influence a mind person, his/hers inner-thoughs -- as deep, as long-lasting as parents can.

Yes, may be that influence stops before 20, but parents influence is so deep seated, that it will continue affect the person for the rest of the life.

Anybody who is a parent has to really take this seriously.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#28

Post by techrich »

b5 wrote: post #5

This is one of my favourite New Yorker articles. I wish they published more articles like this. Suicidal thoughts are a really tough thing to deal with. I've struggled with them for my entire adult life -- more than 20 years now, and counting. They're also deeply personal, and it's hard to find a one-size-fits-all method of helping people through them. In my case, I find them perversely soothing. Planning it out, and…

Like all media outlets, they are too busy bashing trump to publish something decent.

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#29

Post by umvi »

gkanai wrote: post #3

2019 update: Japan Records Lowest Suicide Rate Since Statistics Were First Kept in 1978 https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00381/japan-records-lo...

It's still extremely high compared to other countries though.

To put it in perspective, nearly as many people die by suicide alone in Japan (per capita) as suicide + guns combined in America (per capita).

Re: A Buddhist monk confronts Japan's suicide culture (2013)

#30

Post by jdietrich »

emptysongglass wrote: post #15
gerbilly wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get what is being referred to, but if you are implying that buddhism teaches everything is an illusion, the Buddha himself specifically warned his followers away from nihilism and solipsism. Your everyday conventional wisdom is not negated by buddhism. For example, buddhist people use the word 'I' all the time ("Let me show you the path on which there is no coming and going."), despite trying to realise the doctrin…

This Zen parable is faulty wisdom (like so much of Mahayana and Vajrayana fanfiction). The title the Buddha used to refer to himself, Tathagata , can simultaneously be translated as, "Thus Comes One" and "Thus Goes One". It's not about a path where there is no coming and going, it's about both simultaneously.

Buddhism is a living tradition and always has been. Theravadins have no monopoly on "true" Buddhism - the Pali canon was transcribed hundreds of years after the death of Gautama Buddha and the authorship and authenticity of many parts of the canon remain disputed within the Theravada tradition.

Perhaps more to the point, a quotation from Nanda-manava-puccha (as translated by Thanissaro Bhikku):

"Whatever brahmans & contemplatives describe purity in terms of views & learning, describe purity in terms of precepts & practices, describe purity in terms of manifold ways: none of them, living there in that way, I tell you, have crossed over birth & aging."

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