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The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

spectrum.ieee.org

21–30 of 39 posts

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#21

You would think the reflectors being on the moon would shut up the “moon landings were faked” crowd.

As if it's not possible to place the reflectors using a robot.

i guess it was just lucky they had robots visit all the apollo sites to set them up, hey....

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#23
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

isn't the lack of impacts near the retroreflector due to the fact that the moon surface around the reflector is always facing earth?

The earth covers a pretty small part of the sky for the moon, so I'm not sure it would have that much effect?

The earth looks huge from the moon. The moon’s diameter is 2,158.8 mi where earth’s is 7,917.5 mi, meaning it looks 3.5x as wide and covers 13.5x the area. So more your fist at arms length than your thumb.

In terms of impact gravity and atmosphere extend that somewhat. Though, that’s still not enough to make a meaningful difference.

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#24
post #10

I have long wondered how easy it would be to perform this experiment as an amateur. Powerful lasers are quite cheap now. You could get a telescope (doubling as a beam expander and receiver), and some filters to only allow the laser wavelength to your detector.

Actually very difficult. They use a 30in telescope for these observations and the beam becomes extremely attenuated. The laser 'spot' projected on the moon is roughly 7km across. Only a tiny fraction of the light is reflected back as the reflector is only a few feet across, and is similarly attenuated on the return journey. The return beam is 20km across by the time it hits the Earth.

Due to the extreme attenuation of the final signal the observation takes several hours using highly sensitive equipment, averaging it out to extract meaningful data.

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#25
post #16

I always liked the story of the Lunokhod 1 - the first of the two Soviet Lunar Rovers. Both had reflectors for laser ranging, but Lunokhod 1 was carelessly misplaced in the early 1970s. So no more ranging until 2010 when the NASA reconnaissance orbiter found it again. They didn't lose the other one. :) I think one of the Lunokhods still holds the record for the furthest ever travelled by an extra terrestrial vehicle.

Lunakhod 1 was still responding in 2013 (40 years later) thanks to the NASA LRO (Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter). French website, as it was a (secret) collaboration between Russians and the CNES who provided the retroreflector: https://sciences-techniques.cnes.fr/fr/web/CNES-fr/10757-st-...

Thanks for that, I'd never heard of the French collaboration before.

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#26
post #11

You would think the reflectors being on the moon would shut up the “moon landings were faked” crowd.

What if the moon is just really shiny?

Jokes aside, the Moon is rally dark. With an albedo of 0.12, it is one of the darkest major bodies in the Solar system, save for Mercury with an albedo of 0.11.

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#27
post #10

I have long wondered how easy it would be to perform this experiment as an amateur. Powerful lasers are quite cheap now. You could get a telescope (doubling as a beam expander and receiver), and some filters to only allow the laser wavelength to your detector.

There's a pretty thorough discussion on Reddit[0].

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/qw30x/can_an_am...

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, that's not how it works. Any video you could show of the laser experiment would also be faked. Even if you were to set them in front of the equipment, that'd be faked too. I often wonder as a thought-experiment what would happen if you bundled them onto a Musk style space tourism rocket and flew them to the moon to see the flag (for a bonus they can look back to see the spherical Earth) and then back, would the…

No point sending a camera up, the camera manufacturers have tweaked the firmware to create the illusion of curvature. I _know_ the earth is flat, so I already know that GoPro are in on the conspiracy as well. Your "throw them on a rocket" idea is the only realistic way to convince them I would imagine. Which gives me an idea, maybe that could be my ticket to the moon

Won't work. The "rocket" is simply an advanced simulator with the ability to simulate zero G with high-def displays. No matter what kind of evidence you provide, they will always provide a (far fetched) counter argument.

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#29
Also see the Apache Point Observatory Lunar Laser-ranging Operation (APOLLO)[0]: "APOLLO measures the round-trip travel time of laser pulses bounced off the lunar retroreflectors[1] to a precision of a few picoseconds, corresponding to about one millimeter of precision in range to the moon."

[0]: https://tmurphy.physics.ucsd.edu/apollo/apollo.html

[1]: https://tmurphy.physics.ucsd.edu/apollo/lrrr.html

Re: The lunar laser ranging experiment is still going 50 years later

#30

You would think the reflectors being on the moon would shut up the “moon landings were faked” crowd.

It isn't as simple as point laser at moon, see light shining back with your own eyes, it requires a big telescope and computers and delicate sensors to detect because the moon and earth are so far apart.

I mean, if actual pictures of the landing site from LRO don't convince them: https://airandspace.si.edu/multimedia-gallery/628457main1apo... then a few extra photons returning to the earth won't change their mind. (My personal favorite, in an aesthetic sense, is: https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/apollo-15.html)

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