It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too • Hacker News Board

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#21

Post by carlosrg » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #2

Contains predictable reddit comments of never working a millisecond of unpaid time. That’s certainly a choice; there’s nothing wrong with it. OTOH, if you enjoy coding (as I do), there’s also nothing wrong with coding at home or doing the occasional extra work from home (and conversely, dicking off in the office now and then when there’s an opportunity). Many find that being flexible like this yields a better outcome…

Yes, I think the key point is to know yourself, do what you truly like at leisure time, and never put yourself on pressure outside of work (for example, thinking not coding at home will make you a worse programmer, or that you're missing something). Sometimes I've not touched a line of code at home for months because I was focusing on other hobbies, like reading, that I had abandoned. No regrets. Lately I've gone back to think about possible personal projects I could do. Being flexible with yourself is important.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#22

Post by criley2 » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:01 PM UTC

Rerarom wrote: post #16

megablast wrote: post #6

I don't get this. It is like being an accomplished painter, but never painting anything for yourself. Or a carpenter, and not making your own table or chairs. As a coder, you have the ability to create almost anything. How can that knowledge not tempt you to create something yourself?

Programming is not by itself an art, so it doesn't fulfill people's self-expression needs (although it may contain bits of art like e.g. video games). You cannot create "almost anything" with coding, it's not like I can bake fries by typing some code. I do not write this in jest, I just find that people tend to overestimate coding.

> it's not like I can bake fries by typing some code.

I mean, you'd need hardware, but cooking based on software is obviously a very real thing.

If you can code a bartender, why not a baker? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DopvpNF7J4

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#23

Post by matz1 » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

Rerarom wrote: post #16

megablast wrote: post #6

I don't get this. It is like being an accomplished painter, but never painting anything for yourself. Or a carpenter, and not making your own table or chairs. As a coder, you have the ability to create almost anything. How can that knowledge not tempt you to create something yourself?

Programming is not by itself an art, so it doesn't fulfill people's self-expression needs (although it may contain bits of art like e.g. video games). You cannot create "almost anything" with coding, it's not like I can bake fries by typing some code. I do not write this in jest, I just find that people tend to overestimate coding.

Programming by itself can also be an art. It fit the definition of art.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#24

Post by arvinsim » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:02 PM UTC

prepend wrote: post #19

Rerarom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Programming is not by itself an art, so it doesn't fulfill people's self-expression needs (although it may contain bits of art like e.g. video games). You cannot create "almost anything" with coding, it's not like I can bake fries by typing some code. I do not write this in jest, I just find that people tend to overestimate coding.

I think coding is different things to different people. So sometimes it’s hard to sync up and have a useful conversation. I believe you can create anything with coding. You can automate home routines. You can figure how the best dose of vitamins and supplements. You can optimize finances. It’s pretty limitless. Not to mention staring at a screen, giving it commands and seeing the result for hours just being fun. In b…

> I believe you can create anything with coding. You can automate home routines. You can figure how the best dose of vitamins and supplements. You can optimize finances. It’s pretty limitless. Not to mention staring at a screen, giving it commands and seeing the result for hours just being fun. In both a meditative way and a discovering secrets way.

> But for many people, it’s a job and not interesting in and of itself.

I am one of those people who want to only code at work. I also enjoy programming a lot.

My problem with "coding for fun" for me is that anything interesting that I want to build gets tedious after the initial, easy and fun parts are implemented. I end up trying to fix edge cases and debug hard to fix bugs.

At that point it feels like a chore to do.

> This doesn’t mean programmers who code outside of work are superior humans. I think any company who has this as a binary hiring decision is missing out that there are great programmers who don’t do it out of passion. I once worked with a programmer who didn’t own a computer (in 2005) and he was good. And there are hobby programmers who suck at work even though they have lots of personal projects.

Exactly. People who want to do something else don't go around demeaning people who code in their free time. But the opposite does happen.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#25

Post by matz1 » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

gregf wrote: post #11

If you don't have the desire to do this after work you probably shouldn't even be in the field is how I look at it.

Which is a valid view too. Its true that for some people, if you only code at work you have to accept that you will have some disadvantages.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#26

Post by talonx » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #15

gregf wrote: post #11

If you don't have the desire to do this after work you probably shouldn't even be in the field is how I look at it.

Maybe people enjoy programming enough to make it their job, but to go home and relax afterwards? Who wants to do the same thing 24/7?

While I don't think the OP meant 24/7, I think the point remains that coding outside working hours is a choice borne purely out of personal interest. Having this interest is fine - maybe it makes you a better programmer or maybe it does not. Not having this interest is _also_ fine - and saying that people who don't have it are unfit to be in the field is just sitting on a high horse and looking down at others.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#27

Post by Lazare » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:14 PM UTC

arvinsim wrote: post #20

cameronbrown wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people enjoy programming enough to make it their job, but to go home and relax afterwards? Who wants to do the same thing 24/7?

It's not even about wanting to do it. Doing anything on the metaphorical 24/7 will burn people out.

Yeah. I quite enjoy programming, and I'm quite good at it; as a result I quite enjoy my job and I get paid quite a lot. I'm very lucky!

And to help protect that, I carefully limit the amount of programming I do outside of work hours. The last thing I want is to burn out and stop enjoying my job! And also, there's an enormous number of enjoyable things in life (family, friends, crafts, etc.). Diversifying my hobbies is win/win.

I don't judge people who focus purely on programming, but I do suspect that they may find their views change over time.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#28

Post by Insanity » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:17 PM UTC

It fluctuates for me, which I think is normal. I enjoy programming a lot - it was a hobby before a profession. I enjoy learning programming languages and puzzling things out.

But sometimes I don't want to code at home - I have other hobbies, a wife, friends, .. that I'd rather do something with. But I do find that after a certain time I'll miss programming for fun.

It used to bother me when I lost motivation to work on side-projects or to learn new things. But after losing and regaining the motivation often enough, I now figure it's just a cyclical thing. I might be on a day out with my wife and suddenly think of something I want to learn and continue spending several weeks learning or building it. Only to find myself without a project again for several weeks and enjoying going to the movies, gaming, citytrips...

The only thing which I do believe is that if you have absolutely no interest in learning new things - in your own time or in paid time - it's going to be hard to keep up with the evolving industry. But I could be wrong, we still have the cobol cowboys... :)

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#29

Post by jasode » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:18 PM UTC

>It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

That short life-affirming quote structured like a pithy aphorism is hiding the true debate that motivates it.

The real discussion before that quote is this:

Some employers prefer programmers that like programming outside of work. For the other programmers that would rather constrain coding work to 40 hours a week, they feel that employer preference is unfair.

So yes, of course it's fine to want to do non-coding activities outside of work... but that's not what the real frustration is about.

Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do to prevent some employers for preferring coders who code outside of work. It's been that way for decades. On the other hand, some employers don't care about personal coding projects so that culture may be a better fit.

Re: It is perfectly OK to only code at work, you can have a life too

#30

Post by Insanity » Sat, Aug 17, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

carlosrg wrote: post #21

sokoloff wrote: post #2

Contains predictable reddit comments of never working a millisecond of unpaid time. That’s certainly a choice; there’s nothing wrong with it. OTOH, if you enjoy coding (as I do), there’s also nothing wrong with coding at home or doing the occasional extra work from home (and conversely, dicking off in the office now and then when there’s an opportunity). Many find that being flexible like this yields a better outcome…

Yes, I think the key point is to know yourself, do what you truly like at leisure time, and never put yourself on pressure outside of work (for example, thinking not coding at home will make you a worse programmer, or that you're missing something). Sometimes I've not touched a line of code at home for months because I was focusing on other hobbies, like reading, that I had abandoned. No regrets. Lately I've gone bac…

This is key! It echoes my comment elsewhere in the thread quite well. Being flexible is important. You'll just end up depressing yourself if you'll force yourself to write code in your free time even when you don't want to. (Been there, done that).