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Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

economist.com

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Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#21

Post by slyall »

alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

In Australia/New Zealand if you are in the tech industry most employers will have a brown-out/embargo over the Christmas and New Year period. About 80% of staff will be off for those two weeks (6 days leave equals three weekends and two M-F weeks away).

What happens is the Telcos declare a brown-out/embargo [1] (in 2018 it was from 20 Dec to 7 January). The companies the next level up will follow (because they won't be able to do some network changes) and then the next layer up and so on.

The vast majority of other people will take breaks around the same time. Depends on the industry and what people are doing of course. But with many workers away the buses will run on weekend timetables and many CBD cafes will close.

[1] https://sp.chorus.co.nz/product-update/protecting-chorus-net... and https://www.telarus.com.au/news/month/nov/telco-embargoes-ma...

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#22

Post by CuriouslyC »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #9
CuriouslyC wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have unlimited vacation and I clock in about 8-10 weeks a year. It isn't true vacation though, because I'm still on the hook to put out fires, and my teammates are accidental pyromaniacs.

That just sounds like you work remotely for 8-10 weeks.

I work remotely all the time, I tell my co-workers to leave me alone except in emergencies for 8-10. Sadly my coworkers are firestarters. I really need better coworkers...

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#23

Post by slyall »

pfisch wrote: post #13
alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

Almost no tech company could operate like that. What would you do just shut down your services for a month? Offer no support?

Plenty of tech companies do.

Complete change freeze so you only need a minimum number of developers and ops people around. Although it is sometimes a good time of do that big CICD pipeline rebuild.

The lawyers, HR, finance and office support are down to minimal. Same with the cleaners (a good time to repaint the office though), internal IT, cafe and other support staff.

Sales will be down to minimal since all the customers will be on holiday. Customer support might be at normal or reduced level depending on industry.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#24

Post by basementcat »

pfisch wrote: post #13
alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

Almost no tech company could operate like that. What would you do just shut down your services for a month? Offer no support?

Almost all tech companies operate like this; they have a significantly reduced staff level for 1 or 2 days of a 7 day period.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#25

Post by ttul »

alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

My company operates a 24x7 bit of essential internet infrastructure, so someone has to be at the keyboard at all times. But nonetheless, we shut down all non essential functions over the Xmas holidays so that everyone can have a break. The industry we serve seems to go to sleep at that time too, so it all works out.

I don’t know what I’d do if it was impossible to hit pause for a couple of weeks like this every year.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#26

Post by ferzul »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #7
glitchcrab wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly liberating not having to plan your holidays to ensure you stay within X days, not having to request approval etc.

I have this privilege also, but I find that it's kind of a double edged sword. I can take "vacations" whenever I want, but I can't completely escape work when I do. I've had teammates do things like request a push to prod over vacation, while not mentioning that the prod database had also undergone a pretty large schema change (with no documentation!), then basically beg me to fix it because performance reviews were…

How about if you're international? If there's a serious problem at work (and the bus number is one) I can't fix it because (a) it isn't legal to work while on leave (b) I'm overseas and it isn't legal to work on my visa.

So if something goes won't, they're stuffed. at least that's they're fault.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#27

Post by PUDXGLVIZW »

alistairSH wrote: post #5
glitchcrab wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly liberating not having to plan your holidays to ensure you stay within X days, not having to request approval etc.

Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I ask because I've heard that "unlimited vacation" actually results in LESS vacation being taken because employees are afraid to be seen as the one abusing the system (even though taking 4+ week/year should be norm). Somewhat related, I loathe the trend of grouping sick and vacation time into a single bucket (for those in the…

I want to chime in because I've never actually witnessed horror stories about "unlimited vacation" that people talk about. I'm now at my 2nd job with "unlimited vacation". The general consensus, based on discussion with my peers, is that they take 4 - 5 weeks. This matches my own experience.

EDIT: Also to add, I have seen folks take more than that. Often these are senior people traveling to home countries that involve very long flights. They might take 6 - 8 a year.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#28

Post by ghaff »

xur17 wrote: post #12
alistairSH wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I ask because I've heard that "unlimited vacation" actually results in LESS vacation being taken because employees are afraid to be seen as the one abusing the system (even though taking 4+ week/year should be norm). Somewhat related, I loathe the trend of grouping sick and vacation time into a single bucket (for those in the…

> Curious, how much vacation do your peers at the company take each year? Rough guess is fine. I worked at a place with unlimited vacation in the past, and took ~4 weeks per year. To be honest, if anything, my boss pushed me to take more. In the end I really think it comes down to your boss.

I heard a funny story from a senior guy at one of the big Bay Area tech companies (that has "unlimited" vacation) a little while back. They apparently hired a new PR person who quit after about six months because she couldn't deal with the fact that the CEO took vacations and he really took vacations in the "I'm on vacation. Handle whatever it is without me." sort of sense. It was just so alien that it completely stressed her out.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#29

Post by ghaff »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #7
glitchcrab wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My company gives us unlimited time off - provided your team isn't going to be left with too few people then you just stick it in the calendar. It's incredibly liberating not having to plan your holidays to ensure you stay within X days, not having to request approval etc.

I have this privilege also, but I find that it's kind of a double edged sword. I can take "vacations" whenever I want, but I can't completely escape work when I do. I've had teammates do things like request a push to prod over vacation, while not mentioning that the prod database had also undergone a pretty large schema change (with no documentation!), then basically beg me to fix it because performance reviews were…

It's admittedly less common than it used to be but sometimes you're vacationing somewhere that just doesn't have connectivity. Even leaving aside being off in the Himalayas or wherever, even a lot of areas in the western US like Death Valley have pretty limited coverage. And, if I'm backpacking, even if I have a cell signal there's not much I can do if it's not something I can fix with a few words based on what's in my brain.

To the broader point though. I do find being mostly connected is largely a plus. It's easier to take time off when I know that I can do a bit of flexible work and can be reached when needed rather than being tethered to a network just in case. I have worked both ways over my career and I much prefer today.

Re: Holidays are good for workers and companies alike

#30

Post by ulfw »

pfisch wrote: post #13
alkonaut wrote: post #4

Just shutting down for a month like many companies in parts of Europe is great. Means you don’t even have “time off work”, it means work doesn’t exist because no one else works either. You return after (at least) a month to an empty inbox.

Almost no tech company could operate like that. What would you do just shut down your services for a month? Offer no support?

Considering the small amount of "support" some tech companies provide... I don't see an issue.
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