FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers • Hacker News Board

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#21

Post by MichaelApproved » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:35 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #16

lol768 wrote: post #3

I would argue that the legality of this doesn't matter; there's a huge technical problem in that there's no authenticity guarantees at all when it comes to caller ID and the entire feature is badly designed and has always been open to abuse. SHAKEN/STIR is the (technical) answer to this, though I'll be interested to see to what extent it's adopted.

It's not a real answer though. Imagine everybody adopted it (pretend everyone is using sip/VoIP). The only thing that would change is you'd get same amount of calls from the actual numbers - what are you going to do about it then? If the callers (who LE can get to already with enough questions) are safe now, they'd be safe after the change. Sure, the hn crowd will easily set up appropriate filtering, but we were neve…

Sure, it would help. If the caller ID number was related to the true owner, phone companies would stop the scammers and citizens could log spam calls then sue the owners. The law allows you to collect cash penalties from anyone spam calling.

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#22

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:38 PM UTC

Thermolabile wrote: post #17

Ooo they passed a law making it "illegal", that will stop the international scammers. Just like the war on drugs. Pai knows this stops nothing. Fuck that piece of shit, even when it looks like he's doing good he's actually doing nothing.

[deleted]

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#23

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:39 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #20

paulie_a wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forget fines. Everyone in the company needs to be charged with felonies under Rico Spoofing numbers could be considered a criminal organization Take down every single person

>Take down every single person Management/c-suite? Sure. Your typical telemarketer working at minimum wage? No.

[deleted]

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#24

Post by BonesJustice » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:39 PM UTC

MichaelApproved wrote: post #21

viraptor wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a real answer though. Imagine everybody adopted it (pretend everyone is using sip/VoIP). The only thing that would change is you'd get same amount of calls from the actual numbers - what are you going to do about it then? If the callers (who LE can get to already with enough questions) are safe now, they'd be safe after the change. Sure, the hn crowd will easily set up appropriate filtering, but we were neve…

Sure, it would help. If the caller ID number was related to the true owner, phone companies would stop the scammers and citizens could log spam calls then sue the owners. The law allows you to collect cash penalties from anyone spam calling.

Good luck suing a call center in Bangalore when you live in the U.S.

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#25

Post by MichaelApproved » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:42 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #5

lol768 wrote: post #3

I would argue that the legality of this doesn't matter; there's a huge technical problem in that there's no authenticity guarantees at all when it comes to caller ID and the entire feature is badly designed and has always been open to abuse. SHAKEN/STIR is the (technical) answer to this, though I'll be interested to see to what extent it's adopted.

The solution doesn't have to be at the phone network level either. It would be easy enough for a regulator to simply fine any company whose products are advertised or sold through telemarketing. Make it the companies problem that some of their marketing contractors or affiliate schemes lead to illegal calling.

Stop distributibg enforcement, it creates unnecessary redundancy. Enforcement should be concentrated.

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#26

Post by MichaelApproved » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:46 PM UTC

BonesJustice wrote: post #24

MichaelApproved wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it would help. If the caller ID number was related to the true owner, phone companies would stop the scammers and citizens could log spam calls then sue the owners. The law allows you to collect cash penalties from anyone spam calling.

Good luck suing a call center in Bangalore when you live in the U.S.

Suing is for spamming. Spamming is an unsolicited legitimate marketing call. Most of those calls originate in the US or are selling the products of US companies who hired them.

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#27

Post by viraptor » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:53 PM UTC

MichaelApproved wrote: post #21

viraptor wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a real answer though. Imagine everybody adopted it (pretend everyone is using sip/VoIP). The only thing that would change is you'd get same amount of calls from the actual numbers - what are you going to do about it then? If the callers (who LE can get to already with enough questions) are safe now, they'd be safe after the change. Sure, the hn crowd will easily set up appropriate filtering, but we were neve…

Sure, it would help. If the caller ID number was related to the true owner, phone companies would stop the scammers and citizens could log spam calls then sue the owners. The law allows you to collect cash penalties from anyone spam calling.

Telco billing records are very detailed. They can identify the call from the time it reached you and know who initiated it (their customer or some specific other telco). The fact you see the originating number is irrelevant to the telco and shouldn't matter for any applicable law.

To sue someone, the court would still need to ask the telco about the owner of the number. Right now they would need to ask for the initiator of a call to XYZ at 12:34. Seeing the number doesn't change anything.

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#28

Post by viraptor » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 12:59 PM UTC

BonesJustice wrote: post #24

MichaelApproved wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it would help. If the caller ID number was related to the true owner, phone companies would stop the scammers and citizens could log spam calls then sue the owners. The law allows you to collect cash penalties from anyone spam calling.

Good luck suing a call center in Bangalore when you live in the U.S.

If appropriate laws existed, you could still put pressure on them. Something like "if your international partner sends more than X spam calls, you're responsible for them". The telco would have a choice of getting fined or dropping the interconnect / filtering that source. On the other side, the telco in Bangalore doesn't want to lose the ability to handle calls to the US, so starts monitoring itself.

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#29

Post by turk73 » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #22

Thermolabile wrote: post #17

Ooo they passed a law making it "illegal", that will stop the international scammers. Just like the war on drugs. Pai knows this stops nothing. Fuck that piece of shit, even when it looks like he's doing good he's actually doing nothing.

[deleted]

Okay, can I charge people a fee to call me?

Re: FCC closes telemarketing loophole used by scammers

#30

Post by EGreg » Wed, Aug 07, 2019, 1:05 PM UTC

Seriously, if you have a good data plan, why have a phone number? The phone system is so laughably insecure and limited compared to the voip alternatives. And so riddled with SPAM. There are SIP bridges to it, for the legacy calls.