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Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#21

Post by QuickToBan »

18pfsmt wrote: post #20

Here is the link to the actual report: https://science.sciencemag.org/cgi/doi/10.1126/science.aax35... People should try reading the actual science instead of some journalist's cherry-picked take on the science. It's also interesting that Disney ("evil media corporation") now controls NatGeo. As Bill Gates recently noted, climate alarmists are more of a problem than the "deniers." Here's a story from the BBC this wee…

From the official source:

> The observed melt rates are up to two orders of magnitude greater than predicted by theory, challenging current simulations of ice loss from tidewater glaciers.

Denial doesn't help. If you don't like the posts, you're free to go elsewhere. Civility is a two-way street.

Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#22

Post by QuickToBan »

fencepost wrote: post #13

"Only 50 of approximately 100,000 glaciers in Alaska are tidewater glaciers, and they’re some of the biggest." The takeaways are not that all glaciers are melting faster but that this kind of glacier is melting faster and that similar underwater measurement now needs to be done on other types of glaciers (notably valley glaciers). Most Alaskan glaciers don't end in the ocean, which is one significant factor. For Gree…

> The success of the new method “opens the door for researchers to do this all over the world,” says Sutherland. Specifically, insight from the research at LeConte Glacier in Alaska could be used to study glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica. “Submarine melting may matter everywhere,” says Enderlin.

Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#23

Post by tehabe »

lph wrote: post #19
tehabe wrote: post #7

It would be a lie if I said I was surprised, currently I hear news from everywhere that climate change is moving faster forward than expected. The time window we have left to rescue what is left is shrinking. This worries me a lot.

So what are you doing about it? (I was once talking to a friend over beers, ranting about some politics I was unhappy about. And he asked me: So what are you doing about it? Of course, I wasn't doing anything besides complaining, and this made something click in my head. All of my self-important opinions were worth nothing if I couldn't be bothered to do anything about them. I think about this a lot and it has change…

the topic follows me for the last 20+ years, I'm political active and argued in favour of reduction of co2 emission and transition to renewable energy. since I'm able to choose my own electricity supplier I chose one which only buys renewable energy. I do most of my daily things by walking and by public transit. I'm also active in a club for transportation transition and argue publicly that my town should be focus on bicycles and walking than cars. Sadly I don't see much success, because I'm confronted with a view that w/o cars it wouldn't work, that I have to be aware all the jobs my ideas would kill, and all other things. That is why I'm not very hopeful for the future.

P.S. the thing about what a single person can do is just so much, for a real impact it really needs governments to set policies which causes fundamental change. Does the government continue to build motorways, does the government sets up an environment which is benefitial for investments in renewable energy or in coal. all this has a much bigger influence then my personal decisions.

Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#24

Post by skyfaller »

18pfsmt wrote: post #20

Here is the link to the actual report: https://science.sciencemag.org/cgi/doi/10.1126/science.aax35... People should try reading the actual science instead of some journalist's cherry-picked take on the science. It's also interesting that Disney ("evil media corporation") now controls NatGeo. As Bill Gates recently noted, climate alarmists are more of a problem than the "deniers." Here's a story from the BBC this wee…

One problem with the current data ecosystem is that often misinformation is free, while hard science (and other reliable sources) are hidden behind paywalls. For example, I can read the abstract, which doesn't seem to conflict with the OP, but if I want to see the full text, I'm SOL.

I even have the Unpaywall extension installed (http://unpaywall.org), precisely to avoid this situation, but unfortunately the extension wasn't able to find a free version of this article.

This is one reason Open Access publishing is so crucially important to the public discourse. "Alternate facts" will win if people can read them for free but must pay to read peer-reviewed science.

Whether or not you think National Geographic has mischaracterized the science in this instance, I hope we can all agree that access to the original source would help everyone get their facts straight.

Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#25

Post by flukus »

lph wrote: post #19
tehabe wrote: post #7

It would be a lie if I said I was surprised, currently I hear news from everywhere that climate change is moving faster forward than expected. The time window we have left to rescue what is left is shrinking. This worries me a lot.

So what are you doing about it? (I was once talking to a friend over beers, ranting about some politics I was unhappy about. And he asked me: So what are you doing about it? Of course, I wasn't doing anything besides complaining, and this made something click in my head. All of my self-important opinions were worth nothing if I couldn't be bothered to do anything about them. I think about this a lot and it has change…

> So what are you doing about it?

Vote! While there are some things I can do personally (some I do, others I can improve on) the largest changes will be politically driven, so I'll vote for parties the promise the best policies to reduce emissions, whatever they may be.

When you have major political parties lined with deniers it's not a hard decision with pros and cons to weight up.

Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#27

Post by mikeash »

18pfsmt wrote: post #20

Here is the link to the actual report: https://science.sciencemag.org/cgi/doi/10.1126/science.aax35... People should try reading the actual science instead of some journalist's cherry-picked take on the science. It's also interesting that Disney ("evil media corporation") now controls NatGeo. As Bill Gates recently noted, climate alarmists are more of a problem than the "deniers." Here's a story from the BBC this wee…

Do you have a link to Gates saying alarmism is the greater problem? I’m curious as to exactly what he said and I can’t find it.

Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#28

Post by 18pfsmt »

QuickToBan wrote: post #21
18pfsmt wrote: post #20

Here is the link to the actual report: https://science.sciencemag.org/cgi/doi/10.1126/science.aax35... People should try reading the actual science instead of some journalist's cherry-picked take on the science. It's also interesting that Disney ("evil media corporation") now controls NatGeo. As Bill Gates recently noted, climate alarmists are more of a problem than the "deniers." Here's a story from the BBC this wee…

From the official source: > The observed melt rates are up to two orders of magnitude greater than predicted by theory, challenging current simulations of ice loss from tidewater glaciers. Denial doesn't help. If you don't like the posts, you're free to go elsewhere. Civility is a two-way street.

>Denial doesn't help

The problem is that people who do not want to enact federal policy that decimates the US economy (i.e. "Green New Deal"), are deemed "deniers." I'm not into extremism. The US emits 15% of GHG, and until you can get a commitment from countries where they are building new coal plants to this day, it's difficult to take seriously.

"Since 2005 annual U.S. carbon dioxide emissions have declined by 758 million metric tons. That is by far the largest decline of any country in the world over that timespan and is nearly as large as the 770 million metric ton decline for the entire European Union."

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/energy-economics/stat...

Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#29

Post by flukus »

18pfsmt wrote: post #28
QuickToBan wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the official source: > The observed melt rates are up to two orders of magnitude greater than predicted by theory, challenging current simulations of ice loss from tidewater glaciers. Denial doesn't help. If you don't like the posts, you're free to go elsewhere. Civility is a two-way street.

>Denial doesn't help The problem is that people who do not want to enact federal policy that decimates the US economy (i.e. "Green New Deal"), are deemed "deniers." I'm not into extremism. The US emits 15% of GHG, and until you can get a commitment from countries where they are building new coal plants to this day, it's difficult to take seriously. "Since 2005 annual U.S. carbon dioxide emissions have declined by 758…

> The problem is that people who do not want to enact federal policy that decimates the US economy (i.e. "Green New Deal"), are deemed "deniers".

The problem is the lack of any alternate policy put forward, especially one that can compete with the flexibility, cost effectiveness and proven track record of emissions pricing. There aren't two competing solutions, there's one proposed solution up against wishful thinking.

> The US emits 15% of GHG, and until you can get a commitment from countries where they are building new coal plants to this day, it's difficult to take seriously.

And it's an indication of the trajectory of the US that they are no longer willing to be world leaders. Had they not done their best to sabotage previous efforts at international agreements we'd be well on our way to including developing countries, if not already there, and punishing those that don't sign on.

You also can't just look at current emissions, you have to consider how much CO2 already in the atmosphere the developed world contributed too, which is nearly all of it.

Re: Alaskan glaciers melting 100 times faster than previously thought

#30

Post by abalone »

squirrelicus wrote: post #18
abalone wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course we want governments, corporations, and other institutions to act. History shows that the fastest most effective way is for each of us to start first. Exactly what history shows this? Every major case of social change I can think of (civil rights, women's rights, labor rights, what environmental regulations we have) has happened through mass movements not independent individual choices. The time is for col…

You're over estimating how much impact the West has on climate change. https://ourworldindata.org/co2-and-other-greenhouse-gas-emis... There's only one solution that is known to be practical and based on non speculative approaches: nuclear fission power. And we have to do it globally. Even if emissions in the West drop to zero yesterday, it won't matter.

Your own source disagrees with you. It clearly shows the US is the top cumulative CO2 producer and one of the highest annually.
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