Live data from Hacker News

What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

bbc.com

21–30 of 63 posts

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#21

Why even use sign language, when you could just do real-time speech to text, and just read what is being said? Is that actually less efficient than signing? Edit: So rather than being entirely uneducated on this topic, I'm googling it. There seems to be some disagreement between which is better, and it also appears to be a somewhat sensitive topic (according to non-deaf people who are writing articles about deaf peop…

Are there even any text to speech systems available that are accurate for such a highly technical vocabulary?

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#22
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you "borrow" spoken words into sign language? You can't, really -- which is why he has to invent hand gestures.

I suppose the equivalent is (what I now know is called) finger spelling: an unnatural 'sounding' word that breaks the flow, but it's [spelling is] taken from a language where it already exists.

See how well spelling out words rather than pronouncing them works for you in conversation. This really is a unique problem to adopting spoken words into a non-vocal language.

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#23

Why even use sign language, when you could just do real-time speech to text, and just read what is being said? Is that actually less efficient than signing? Edit: So rather than being entirely uneducated on this topic, I'm googling it. There seems to be some disagreement between which is better, and it also appears to be a somewhat sensitive topic (according to non-deaf people who are writing articles about deaf peop…

I'm not deaf, I only studied ASL in HS and it included some useful lessons on Capital-D Deaf Culture. So I'm not much more of an expert on the subject by any means, but I love language studies.

Efficiency is only one spectrum in play. Sign languages are languages distinct and evolutionarily unique from spoken languages. Early attempts such as "Signed English" attempted to minimize the distinction between the spoken language and signed language, but living languages evolve to fit their medium, and sign languages evolved some truly unique grammars and even their own words that don't always reflect relatives in nearby spoken languages.

Even though sign languages for the most part haven't adopted their own written languages that better reflect their grammar and uniqueness (and there's really interesting arguments on both sides whether they should), there's an increasing difference between a sign language and its "written language neighbor". One particularly fun example is that American Sign Language (ASL) is much closer to French Sign Language (FSL) on the language family tree than ASL is to British Sign Language (BSL). Despite what you might presume from the spoken language "neighborhoods" of the sign languages, an ASL signer is going to have an easier conversation with an FSL signer than a BSL signer.

Which leads to the fact that there are even native speakers whose first and primary language in their lives is a sign language, and with a culture to match (Capital-D Deaf Culture). Written English will always be a foreign language to them, even if it is a second language they have a lot of reason to study from early in life.

So it's a quality of life question as much as or more than just an efficiency question. (Just as with most language issues, really. We could probably find a more efficient use of language for English medical/scientific jargon than smashing lots of random bits of Latin and Greek together. But we have what we have for a lot of familiarity and cultural reasons.)

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#24
post #21

Why even use sign language, when you could just do real-time speech to text, and just read what is being said? Is that actually less efficient than signing? Edit: So rather than being entirely uneducated on this topic, I'm googling it. There seems to be some disagreement between which is better, and it also appears to be a somewhat sensitive topic (according to non-deaf people who are writing articles about deaf peop…

Are there even any text to speech systems available that are accurate for such a highly technical vocabulary?

Yes. The more specialized a field is, the easier it is to tailor the speech recognition system for that.

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is etymology so relevant? The lexicon of the word is scientific jargon; its language is English.

In spanish it is Ácido DesoxirriboNucleico. It's very easy to construct, given that "ácido", "des" and "nucleico" have latin roots.

Both Spanish and English have a fair bit of influence from Latin and from languages that were influenced by Latin. A better example would be what the word is in Swahili, or Mandarin.

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#27
post #26

I am Deaf myself and I studied Bachelor of Law at the Swiss Distance Learning University ( https://distanceuniversity.ch/ ). For the mandatory attendances (six Saturdays a year in Fribourg) I hired two Signed Language interpreters. Ask me anything.

Why did you capitalize "Deaf"?

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#28
post #13

I would wonder, given that many scientific words--especially in chemistry--are a jumble of root plus prefixes and suffixes (de-oxy-ribo-nucleo-tide), and there are a LOT of these chemistry words, would it be productive to treat the signs the same way. So instead of a single sign for deoxyribonucleotide, you break it into a sort of compound sign that is built up from similar meaning sub parts? I know very little about…

I am Deaf myself and my Signed Language (Swiss German Sign Language) is special, so I don't know whether my experience is generalizable.

It is very possible to agree upon a language with your interpreters and colleagues who are also Deaf. So you create something not official but what works for you and your situation.

This approach often works fine for me: try to convey the meaning into movement and dynamics. Signed Languages are very powerful and are conceptually more capable to express something at its core instead giving it a name. Add to this "core" sign a few modifiers like fingerspell the first or the first few letters, and what works very well in Swiss German Sign Language, mouthing, i. e. move the mouth as if you would verbalize but don't make a sound. These mouthings are linguistically known as "mouth pictures". Exactly as loan words, and often the loaned words are mangled horribly but they are just an expedient for communication.

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#29
post #26

I am Deaf myself and I studied Bachelor of Law at the Swiss Distance Learning University ( https://distanceuniversity.ch/ ). For the mandatory attendances (six Saturdays a year in Fribourg) I hired two Signed Language interpreters. Ask me anything.

Why did you capitalize "Deaf"?

Because there is a difference between "deaf" and "Deaf".

The capitalized word is meant to highlight the cultural and social parts of living in a community with other Deaf people. You also would not write American in the lower case.

Being "deaf" is about the handicap, about the loss of hearing and other problems.

Being "Deaf" is about being a member of a community, about the keen visual sense, about communicating in a Signed Language, and so on.

Re: What's Deoxyribonucleotide in Sign Language?

#30
post #28
post #13

I would wonder, given that many scientific words--especially in chemistry--are a jumble of root plus prefixes and suffixes (de-oxy-ribo-nucleo-tide), and there are a LOT of these chemistry words, would it be productive to treat the signs the same way. So instead of a single sign for deoxyribonucleotide, you break it into a sort of compound sign that is built up from similar meaning sub parts? I know very little about…

I am Deaf myself and my Signed Language (Swiss German Sign Language) is special, so I don't know whether my experience is generalizable. It is very possible to agree upon a language with your interpreters and colleagues who are also Deaf. So you create something not official but what works for you and your situation. This approach often works fine for me: try to convey the meaning into movement and dynamics. Signed L…

I studied American Sign Language for 3 years in University (more of a drinking club with credits than anything else). We were taught that a lot of signed language is like this- that signs can be invented as needed and agreed upon and that's just a normal part of what makes Signed languages cool.

As a result, it was expected that if we traveled a few hundred km in any direction, the local signs might be dramatically different than the ones we're used to, and so we'd better learn to interpret context and ask what specific words meant.

Post reply on HN