Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#21

Post by benj111 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't this leave us with Qualcomm once again the only manafacturer of cellular modems for everyone else? I somehow doubt Apple would keep supplying the Intel parts to any other OEMs. This could go either way. Apple is clearly doing this because they want to give Qualcomm the finger. But if they really want to do that then they do sell parts to any other OEM. Most of the devices these radios go in don't actually…

>Apple could sell the chips for commodity prices and make a bit of profit for itself Never gonna happen. You can't just sell the chips, you also need to provide a TON of support to your customers and integrators and in the semiconductor business that's way too much of a hassle for Apple to be worth it. They have much bigger fish to fry.

From what I hear about Qualcomm, theres enough companies that would be willing to jump through the hoops to avoid them, as Apple themselves did Intel.

They could always set up a joint venture, Apple brings the IP. The partner does the day to day stuff. It doesn't make a lot of sense to be sitting on top of IP and R&D that could be amortised over a much larger number of units.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#22

Post by shmerl » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:16 AM UTC

Apple getting more patents? What can go wrong.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#23

Post by soup10 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:19 AM UTC

briandear wrote: post #18

IceWreck wrote: post #13

Apple sued Qualcomm to drop their prices and used Intel to keep them in check. After their settlement/agreement with Qualcomm, they started using Qualcomm and dropped Intel and then Intel quit the smartphone chip business. Now theyre planning to buy Intel's smartphone SoC business for a fraction of the money they would've paid before. Nice strategy, but its somewhat unethical.

How is it unethical? If you live in a village with two bakeries and one, your favorite, starts charging you double for their delicious bread, you then start shopping at the other one who’s bread is terrible, but suitable enough. Now, faced with competition, your favorite bakery lowers their price, so you go back to your favorite. Now, the second bakery is hanging on by a thread because you aren’t buying his bad bread…

Apple singlehandedly making multibillion dollar chip deals that make or break companies isn't "free market" for anyone but Apple.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#24

Post by keenmaster » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:21 AM UTC

IceWreck wrote: post #13

Apple sued Qualcomm to drop their prices and used Intel to keep them in check. After their settlement/agreement with Qualcomm, they started using Qualcomm and dropped Intel and then Intel quit the smartphone chip business. Now theyre planning to buy Intel's smartphone SoC business for a fraction of the money they would've paid before. Nice strategy, but its somewhat unethical.

Intel was dropped because they weren’t competitive, not because of some long con to lower acquisition price. Apple really didn’t want to work with Qualcomm again.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#25

Post by lnsru » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:22 AM UTC

phenylene wrote: post #19

Can someone explain why Intel was having such a hard time competing with Qualcomm? What are the challenges in developing modems?

One needs to support all existing standards since 5G availability is limited in the world. This low power mixed circuit masterpiece requires really specific knowledge and must find balance between low power and good connectivity. It’s not trivial. Otherwise we would have couple startups every year trying to compete against Qualcomm. Last but not least: this matter involves thousands patents making it game for companies with very deep pockets only.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#26

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:26 AM UTC

phenylene wrote: post #19

Can someone explain why Intel was having such a hard time competing with Qualcomm? What are the challenges in developing modems?

Intel's modem division was not exactly Intel, it was the modem business unit they bought from Infineon Semiconductors of Germany in 2011.

Having worked in the semiconductor business in Germany and having friends who worked at Infineon there, the cause would be the corporate culture that rewards incompetent management riding the gravy train(old boys club) instead of engineering effort and playing the politics game is the only way to move up, even though lots of engineers there are very talented people.

This, coupled with Intel's own innovation culture that fails at anything that doesn't involve milking the X86 resulted in a dumpster fire.

Under Apple, these same engineers could probably ship something competitive if Apple plays their cards right.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#27

Post by jsgo » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:27 AM UTC

soup10 wrote: post #23

briandear wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it unethical? If you live in a village with two bakeries and one, your favorite, starts charging you double for their delicious bread, you then start shopping at the other one who’s bread is terrible, but suitable enough. Now, faced with competition, your favorite bakery lowers their price, so you go back to your favorite. Now, the second bakery is hanging on by a thread because you aren’t buying his bad bread…

Apple singlehandedly making multibillion dollar chip deals that make or break companies isn't "free market" for anyone but Apple.

That isn’t really fair to Apple (or long game, Intel) though. That basically says that it is in Apple’s best interest to never deal with Intel because in doing so, Intel becomes dependent upon them. If they would’ve remained with Qualcomm from day one, Intel’s shortcomings in mobile (iirc, Intel and Windows Phone tried to pair up a bit) could never be blamed on Apple.

That arrangement may work totally for Qualcomm and somewhat for Apple, but it’d be devastating for Intel.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#28

Post by JoachimSchipper » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:42 AM UTC

soup10 wrote: post #23

briandear wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it unethical? If you live in a village with two bakeries and one, your favorite, starts charging you double for their delicious bread, you then start shopping at the other one who’s bread is terrible, but suitable enough. Now, faced with competition, your favorite bakery lowers their price, so you go back to your favorite. Now, the second bakery is hanging on by a thread because you aren’t buying his bad bread…

Apple singlehandedly making multibillion dollar chip deals that make or break companies isn't "free market" for anyone but Apple.

That’s not a commodity market, but there’s still plenty of economic freedom?

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#29

Post by yaantc » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:57 AM UTC

abbe_k wrote: post #14

mschuster91 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Mediatek also did their own modem+cpu combos?

They do. And so does Samsung. I haven't checked but I would be surprised if Huawei didn't have their own modems too.

Yes Huawei too with the Balong modems, through their HiSilicon subsidiary: http://www.hisilicon.com/en/Products/ProductList/Balong

In a few years it could be so that all the tier 1 smartphone vendors have their in-house cellular modem.

Re: Apple in Advanced Talks to Buy Intel’s Smartphone-Modem Chip Business

#30

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 23, 2019, 7:59 AM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #21

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple could sell the chips for commodity prices and make a bit of profit for itself Never gonna happen. You can't just sell the chips, you also need to provide a TON of support to your customers and integrators and in the semiconductor business that's way too much of a hassle for Apple to be worth it. They have much bigger fish to fry.

From what I hear about Qualcomm, theres enough companies that would be willing to jump through the hoops to avoid them, as Apple themselves did Intel. They could always set up a joint venture, Apple brings the IP. The partner does the day to day stuff. It doesn't make a lot of sense to be sitting on top of IP and R&D that could be amortised over a much larger number of units.

[deleted]