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Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

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Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#21

Post by HeyZuess »

> He was shocked when he saw that the task's card has been claimed by another.

If this is project management, then where is the planning ? This really has nothing to do with Agile, it has to do with planning which is not absent from Agile.

> "I am not getting the satisfaction of completing a thing when working like this."

This is a people issue, it's very attitude based. Oh someone took my ticket, my work life is horrible. How about 1) talk to the person who took it, 2) talk to someone and explain the reason this should be done a different way (communication something agile highly promotes), 3) go with the flow and move onto something else. Don't be a snowflake.

> 1) No ownership satisfaction 2) No completion satisfaction

I work in a small agile house, and I have much more ownership and involvement in project completion that I have had anywhere else. In fact that is a premise of such methodologies as scrum which time box, and reduce the scope and objectives to things like sprints.

> 3) Someone else taking credit for their work

I am not sure about this one, but this is consistent of many work environments. Heck I've worked in offices where some egos would take credit for anything.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#22

Post by deedubaya »

greenyoda wrote: post #18
deedubaya wrote: post #14

Developers are highly paid because their knowledge is highly leveraged. Someone else is benefiting from your application of knowledge by an order of magnitude of what they're paying you. Why be the cow when you could be the dairyman?

> Why be the cow when you could be the dairyman? Because the cow doesn't need to worry about selling the milk, collecting money from the customers and fixing the roof on the barn?

Yup, that’s the hardest part for sure.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#23

Post by haydn3 »

HeyZuess wrote: post #21

> He was shocked when he saw that the task's card has been claimed by another. If this is project management, then where is the planning ? This really has nothing to do with Agile, it has to do with planning which is not absent from Agile. > "I am not getting the satisfaction of completing a thing when working like this." This is a people issue, it's very attitude based. Oh someone took my ticket, my work life is hor…

The fact people can take tickets and you have to fight and have an argument about it really shows that there's a discourse inevitable in systems like Agile.

Who gets the 'tickets', why are 'tickets' always ruling people, when will 'tickets' be more like working for your own company?

The fact is the tickets themselves are acting like a virtual currency of which only one person gets, exclusively.

If more than one person could work on a ticket this would solve the problem, but the fact that people are locked out and it's exclusive makes them an argumentative point and causes greed/habits to form.

Fix the tickets, not the people. All the credit and satisfaction comes from this one point.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#24

Post by externalreality »

nscalf wrote: post #17

So while I totally agree with this, I have some questions: First off, do you think Agile is better than Waterfall? I personally think that it delivers a product faster, but I'm not sure if it actually has a macro improvement on the job process. I think waterfall probably addresses your developer-centric issue of satisfaction better than Agile does. I think we may have thrown away too much with the anti-waterfall hatr…

The first problem with agile is that false dichotomy - "It's either agile or waterfall". Sorry but that dichotomy doesn't exist. Waterfall vs Agile is just a good-bad binary. Surely you want to iterate quickly and stay in constant contact with customers, if that is all agile is then I am all in. However, I can't subscribe to robbing developers of ownership of a domain. I would even do microservice arch if it meant dividing things up into domains and assigning developers microservices that they own. I want to keep developers and giving them responsibility and ownership is a good way to do it.

Its funny because, in Agile you hear "You don't want one developer leaving with all the knowledge" now instead we have all the developers leaving with all the knowledge.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#25

Post by [deleted] »

SamWhited wrote: post #2

I completely agree; it also has the effect of making software worse, as far as I can tell. At the last few mid-to-large sized tech companies I've worked for I've watched project and engineering managers push hard for more velocity trying to get their bonus. Eventually they start telling people to take shortcuts, or rewarding the developer who gets things done faster but, as an example, doesn't write any tests. They t…

[deleted]

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#26

Post by phonebanshee »

deedubaya wrote: post #14

Developers are highly paid because their knowledge is highly leveraged. Someone else is benefiting from your application of knowledge by an order of magnitude of what they're paying you. Why be the cow when you could be the dairyman?

Because dairy farms go under all the time. These days, the well fed happy cows just stroll over to the next field, where there are massages on tap if the stress of eating grass in the sunshine gets to be too much.

To put that in non-cow terms, the rewards of just getting straightforward compensation these days are really good. So good it's not obvious that starting your own thing is worth it monetarily.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#27

Post by jay_kyburz »

externalreality wrote: post #24
nscalf wrote: post #17

So while I totally agree with this, I have some questions: First off, do you think Agile is better than Waterfall? I personally think that it delivers a product faster, but I'm not sure if it actually has a macro improvement on the job process. I think waterfall probably addresses your developer-centric issue of satisfaction better than Agile does. I think we may have thrown away too much with the anti-waterfall hatr…

The first problem with agile is that false dichotomy - "It's either agile or waterfall". Sorry but that dichotomy doesn't exist. Waterfall vs Agile is just a good-bad binary. Surely you want to iterate quickly and stay in constant contact with customers, if that is all agile is then I am all in. However, I can't subscribe to robbing developers of ownership of a domain. I would even do microservice arch if it meant di…

Nothing in the Agile Manifesto says anything about robbing developers of ownership of a domain. The first line of the manifesto is "Individuals and interactions over processes and tools", which suggested to me that individual work satisfaction is right there at the top.

Whoever is running your team is doing it wrong.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#28

Post by externalreality »

greenyoda wrote: post #16
sparrish wrote: post #9

Turnover, IMHO, is due to market demand, not satisfaction issues. After 1.5 - 2.0 years, a dev has more skills that are in demand and will gladly jump ship for a better position and/or pay elsewhere.

To be more precise, the problem is that employees' raises are not keeping up with the job market, so the only way to get what you're worth is to change jobs frequently. If companies would make more of an effort to keep their employees happy (financially, work satisfaction, etc.), they'd spend much less time recruiting and training new employees, and productivity and profitability would probably increase. Hiring a new…

Both jumping ship for raises and other things are also true according to multiple sources. Job satisfaction is another leading cause. The tech industry has to fix the issue of turnover, its costing too much money and careers are being diluted.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#29

Post by jay_kyburz »

KrumpetPirate wrote: post #11

I joined a new project recently after working in a mostly relaxed agile environment for most of my career. I would describe my current project as "Agile at all costs". No testing, no requirements, just go. Just do. I have to say it's created an environment where almost every developer is super unhappy and ultimately producing a sub-par product. I want to go back to just doing good work. Obviously focusing on what the…

Whoever said agile means no testing and no requirements is doing it wrong.

Re: Why I No Longer Want to Write Software for Companies That I Don't Own

#30

Post by jay_kyburz »

codesushi42 wrote: post #5

What is agile development? Is it anything more than a buzzword? I have worked in several environments that embraced "agile". And they were all different, for the most part. The only things they had in common was bad management and negligence of tech debt.

The Agile Manifesto

    Individuals and interactions over processes and tools
    Working software over comprehensive documentation
    Customer collaboration over contract negotiation
    Responding to change over following a plan
There are many variations built on top of these, but without these it's not Agile.

https://agilemanifesto.org/

None of these things makes management easier, you still need a good manager to make a project work.

Nothing in the manifesto says you should ignore technical debt, that is simply a choice your manager has decided to make. Its not the fault of Agile.

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