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Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

puri.sm

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Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#21

Post by TylerE »

Apocryphon wrote: post #19
TylerE wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting a lot of Ouya vibes from this project. Good UI/UX is hard, and "open platform" might get some kickstarter monies, but it isn't really something 99.9% of people care about.

At the very least, they won't be trying to chase the fickle gamer market. It seems like Librem 5 is trying to cater to hackers, who would be the most tolerant of deficiencies in the UX.

That's a pretty small market, and they're on the wrong end of the economy-of-scale curve to begin with.

Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#22

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

logicprog wrote: post #9

I want to like Librem's smartphone, I really do. I like having control over my software, and I like being able to really understand how it works and tinker with it and stuff. But I have this sinking feeling that the Librem 5 is just vaporware, or worse, that it'll get released with a half baked UI and a barebones list of apps. On that latter one, I really don't see how they'll fix the problem. On the former, the thin…

A lot of Nokia N900 users were very happy with a “barebones list of apps” and the only reason that they had to eventually abandon that phone was because the closed hardware required a specific kernel version and certain other libraries could not be upgraded for interoperability and security’s sake.

If the Librem offers a more upgradable device, then that is already enough for the hacker community. Most of my time is either spent in a web browser, Emacs, or sending SMS. Also, many Android users who eschew Google apps and install LineageOS with F-droid as their app source, would probably find Librem a comfortable enviroment.

Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#23

Post by dangus »

danShumway wrote: post #17
logicprog wrote: post #9

I want to like Librem's smartphone, I really do. I like having control over my software, and I like being able to really understand how it works and tinker with it and stuff. But I have this sinking feeling that the Librem 5 is just vaporware, or worse, that it'll get released with a half baked UI and a barebones list of apps. On that latter one, I really don't see how they'll fix the problem. On the former, the thin…

It's Linux -- if it's missing something, I can just build it. And I don't have to write my code in something horrible like Java, or boot up an emulator to test things, or submit my code to an app store, or figure out how to root it so I can remove all the bundled spyware. If I write a command line utility, I don't need to have a separate codebase between my computer and my phone. It's what I have always wanted my sma…

Besides the hardware kill switches and replaceable battery, I think this experience is going to compare poorly to LineageOS, which has a lot of the same software freedom and privacy advantages with a much more refined and complete operating system.

This phone is months from shipping and we haven’t even been shown multi touch have we? Is that even a feature being promised?

Ultimately the difference between this and the Raspberry Pin is tangible - $614 to be exact. I know that Purism isn’t out to sell a mainstream phone, but my doubts are seriously strong that they’ll sell enough of these to justify the effort.

I can build anything that’s missing in Linux as long as someone invents the fountain of youth so that I can spent a few thousand engineering years on implementation.

Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#24

Post by TACIXAT »

liamcardenas wrote: post #18

I’m sure people will disagree with this but I think they should focus on getting an easy way for people to target their devices with React Native, NativeScript, PWAs and every other cross-platform framework. That way they can much more easily acquire software. Seriously making an app from scratch is no small task, and often time isn’t worth it for such a small market.

Yea, I think PWAs are a great substitute for apps. I wrote a websocket chat that my girlfriend and I use. It works great on desktop and mobile, makes for a seamless transition from commute to work. I'm less hyped about the electron ecosystem, but something performant that allowed those front end tools would be great.

Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#25

Post by flukus »

liamcardenas wrote: post #18

I’m sure people will disagree with this but I think they should focus on getting an easy way for people to target their devices with React Native, NativeScript, PWAs and every other cross-platform framework. That way they can much more easily acquire software. Seriously making an app from scratch is no small task, and often time isn’t worth it for such a small market.

Have you seen what development for this is like? You can slap together simple apps (the UI anyway) with a few dozen lines of C. It's extremely simple, lightweight and fast, everything react/PWA's/etc aren't. This is what excites me about librem the most, it's so easy to just write code with no bloated IDE, 15 xml files, AbstractFactoryBuilders and the rest of the android crapfest.

PWA's and the like can stay away, I want software from developers that actually respect their users, software that doesn't waste resources, software that actually looks native.

Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#26

Post by justforpurism »

Registered just to post this. Love Purism, want it to succeed. But...

IMHO, the effort is going to fail miserably, unless folks stop wasting time trying to build a phone UI, i.e. another attempt to build Android/iOS ecosystem. There were Sailfish, MER, Openmoko, and whatnot attempts to make a pure Linux-running cell phone. Just stop it. You will burn through your money doing half-baked UI, there will be no adoption, then no developers, then no apps, and thus no users.

As per OP link, Purism just have shown that they wasted precious time on badly looking GNOME Clocks, Emacs, Password manager, a game, a half-baked music player, Torrent client (on a phone!), and Drawing app made with their native UI. What a waste of time to re-write (or port) all of this, all over again.

The only surviving plan for any Linux-phone: make it web-centric. You have to port ONE app: Firefox. Make it fast, make it perfect. Then, automatically you will get:

- Adoption. http://m.uber.com http://m.lyft.com/ work out of the box. I am not leaving home without the phone because it enables to access essential day-to-day services. Partner with companies that develop those web-based apps.

- Adoption. Web-based music: Spotify, SoundCloud. Out of the box. Purism doesn't need to waste time on this. Just have pre-installed bookmarks to those apps. Partner with companies that develop those web-based apps.

- Adoption. Endless web apps such as "Clocks", "Notepad", Games and drawing apps already exists. Purism don't need to waste time on this stuff. Just have pre-installed bookmarks for those apps. Partner with companies that develop those web-based apps.

Once basic needs satisfied, those of us who need Emacs, will be able to port Emacs and Torrent clients themselves. Why waste your time, Purism?

Focus on releasing the hardware, be different from other phones, be lean, get immediate adoption, community will fill the blanks.

Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#27

Post by bo1024 »

dmix wrote: post #2

GTK for a smartphone is an interesting choice. I'm curious if the Gnome team would ever commit to this. The use of a stylus in the video is a bit concerning though. Off topic but I hope Librem releases a high-end laptop in addition to their mid-tier one, ideally with a high performance AMD CPU. Something that could be the open-source friendly version of a Macbook Pro. The way they disable Intel ME and add hardware to…

I think the specs are already pretty competitive with Macbook Pro -- the only thing it doesn't have is a discrete GPU.

Unfortunately I'd guess they won't use an AMD CPU anytime soon because I don't think we know how to 'purify' it, at least with Intel we can try to disable ME.

Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#28

Post by RandomBacon »

justforpurism wrote: post #26

Registered just to post this. Love Purism, want it to succeed. But... IMHO, the effort is going to fail miserably, unless folks stop wasting time trying to build a phone UI, i.e. another attempt to build Android/iOS ecosystem. There were Sailfish, MER, Openmoko, and whatnot attempts to make a pure Linux-running cell phone. Just stop it. You will burn through your money doing half-baked UI, there will be no adoption,…

> another attempt to build Android/iOS ecosystem

Do you understand what they are doing? They don't have to build the ecosystem, it already exists!

> Purism just have shown that they wasted precious time on badly looking

I think it looks good.

> What a waste of time to re-write (or port)

So you still have no idea what they are doing. Why are you taking the time to create new accounts and post long comments if you aren't taking the time to understand what they're doing?

> make it web-centric. You have to port ONE app: Firefox.

They aren't making a web-centric device. We don't want a web-centric device. They are making a privacy-focused, portable Linux device that makes calls.

---

It's weird. It seems like every Librem 5 post has new accounts that criticize it.

Is there someone who doesn't want it to suceed?

Re: Runs on the Librem 5 Smartphone – Week 2

#29

Post by mikece »

Is there any reason why applications cannot be written for the Librem 5 with Flutter? The Flutter framework compiles to ARM binary and the UI is rendered with Skia, a C++ UI layer. It's not like a bunch of widgets would need to be written and supported on Librem, just the Skia layer. What am I missing?
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