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France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

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Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#21
The US administration is presenting the new tax as if it was specifically targeted to US companies because of their origin. Like a tariff.

It is not the case at all. Yes the biggest tech giants that do not pay enough tax are mostly from the US (also other companies from other countries are affected too)

But it is not because they are from the US that this new tax is created. It is simply because they don't pay enough tax

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#22

Interestingly, the only recent French tech company to be even remotely globally relevant (Criteo), is also affected. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_of_France is a good list to look at. There is only one other software/internet company founded in France since 2000 in the 'Notable' list - 360Learning. About a third of the list was founded before 1900. A very different list than what you'd see in the US…

Sogeti is also very large, founded in 2002.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#23
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> company that's selling ads to a French company that wants to show those ads to French users is doing business in France, end of story. yeah, so taxes make sense to pay for the roads, bridges and healthcare that these ads are using.

Given the effect of social networking products on mental health, in this light it absolutely makes sense for countries with nationalized healthcare to tax big tech

well, it only "makes sense" in case you are literally insane

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#24
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean that EU citizens should also pay for these services? Or do you expect these companies would continue to operate in the EU with no net profit.

Yes, they should. FB doesn't want to get taxed? Create a non-tracking version and paywall it, I would actually pay for that myself.

You and maybe a dozen other people. Social media is worthless without widespread adoption.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#25
Trump is right on this one -- this measure is definitely anti-competitive and specifically aimed at American tech companies. I hope he is swift to retaliate with appropriate tariffs. Failing to do so will bring a wave of random EU taxes on American tech companies, which will eventually lead to lower profits and engineer salaries.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#26
post #15

I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…

In the case of Amazon there's a clear protectionist argument to be made. It will kill local businesses and send a bigger share of the profit to an American company. Replace jobs in those small independent businesses by underpaid corporate jobs at Walmart 2.0. Amazon is in a position where it can sell items at a loss for years just for the sake of killing small competitors. Granted, maybe it's the role of antitrust laws to take care of that rather than taxes, but I'm generally in favor of slowing down Amazon, if only to give other players a chance to grow before Amazon takes everything. The problem with antitrust laws is that they will come and slap Bezos with a tiny fine 3 years after Amazon has unfairly killed competitors.

If you want to tax and regulate Facebook, etc., I think the argument is much less clear, especially if those regulations are just going to cement Facebook's position against possible newcomers.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#27
post #15

I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…

"What public resources did Amazon, a US company, use from France?"

off the top of my head, I'm sure there are lots more:

- a large set of well-off consumers who got there because of free public education, parental supports, et cetera

- a safe society so drop shipping is possible

- roads & infrastructure for shipping

- a justice system that protects Amazon from cheating buyers and sellers

- a stable, accepted currency

- no need for large numbers of armed guards at warehouses, protecting shipments, et cetera

- a functioning health & welfare system so can get away with paying employees & contractors peanuts

- a pool of employees and contractors who were supported by society growing up

and much more, I'm sure.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#28
post #15

I never understood the logic behind taxing large internet businesses. The idea behind taxes is that you use some public resource and you pay for that service. You own a home in a neighborhood, you pay property tax that funds the schools. You drive a car, you pay gasoline tax that funds the streets. You hire workers locally, you pay the tax to pay back all the contributions public institutions made to adding the skill…

Those large tech companies can make money in France because the french government provides all that is necessary for a free, fair and functioning market. How could Google make money in France if there was no french police force, education system, market regulation, court system, contract enforcement?

All money made on the white market in any country is facilitated by that government, and taxes are paid on all profits to pay for the services which allowed the profit to be made.

>The other theories of taxation is that it should be used to raise revenue from the best means possible. I disagree with that framework but applying taxes arbitrarily hardly seems fair or the best way to raise revenue.

It's not arbitrary to expect businesses to pay for services they benefit from.

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#29
post #12

Good. Next step, have EU countries come up with an estimation of the value of their citizens' private data that FB and Google gobbles up and tax them on that too. Edit: companies -> countries

Why not google and FB pay the users directly?

Why would they purposefully reduce their profits?

Re: France has approved a digital services tax despite threats of retaliation by US

#30
post #17

I just hope the US does not "retaliate" on this. EU entrepreneurs are too dependent on US businesses.

How, they would also tax big companies "hidden" profits ? Some US citizens are asking for this already, the French tax is not target at a country.
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